Bravo
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 Posted: Sat May 09, 2009 5:18 pm Post subject: |
 
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| Bravo wrote: | | How they choose to run a forum is their own business so long as it does not contravene the Terms and Conditions of MFF. |
The result from your link. Your complaint was looked into and found to be short of sufficient evidence against the T&C.
This case is different as your forum is clearly in breach of the T&C. Your forum has been suspended, as admin states it will be happily reinstated should offending material be removed and re-occurrences prevented.
We are not taking sides in your dispute, we don't care about that one way or the other. We also are not 'out to get' your forum, we would like all forums to grow and prosper, we simply ask that you abide by the T&C. Here a mistake has been made, your forum has gone too far and the reins are being pulled in. You can dispute it until you are blue in the face but the top man has deemed it to be in breach and he's said what you need to do.
The ball is in your court.
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admin (no pm's please)
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| Posted: Sat May 09, 2009 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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We hold these discussions in public so anyone can see if we are being fair and objective.
Your complaint seems to have been based on your view about unfairness in the way a forum was run, and as stated at the time we take no stance on how well/badly/fairly/unfairly a forum is run.
This suspension was made a clear cut decision on the basis of a singe thread, a thread that incites your members to use proxy servers to stir up trouble on another forum. Any forum doing this will be treated the exact same way. Under current legislations such threads can be considered incitement to commit a crime under the computer misuse act.
What I want are assurances that this will STOP. That you will put this squabble behind you and get on with running a forum. I have already said what needs to be done. I want threads relating to this squabble removed and for both forums to do the adult thing and if you can't get along to ignore each other.
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Graham The Builder
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| Posted: Sat May 09, 2009 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Bravo wrote: |
This case is different as your forum is clearly in breach of the T&C. Your forum has been suspended, as admin states it will be happily reinstated should offending material be removed and re-occurrences prevented. |
Ok, that is fair enough but this seems like a sledgehammer to crack a nut with the suspension. I am not an admin or a mod on CW but I know a man who is.  I'm sure this can all be resolved in next to no time and the offending article removed from the site so that we can all get back to some normallity.
The ball is in your court.
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quixote
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| Posted: Sat May 09, 2009 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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| admin (no pm's please) wrote: | | This suspension was made a clear cut decision on the basis of a singe thread, a thread that incites your members to use proxy servers to stir up trouble on another forum. Any forum doing this will be treated the exact same way. Under current legislations such threads can be considered incitement to commit a crime under the computer misuse act |
The offending thread could've been removed by CW admin on recepit of an e-mail, surely?
But in any case, the above statement conflicts with the reasons given in your first post:
| admin (no pm's please) wrote: |
This has been done on two grounds.
1) By elevating this inter forum squabble to an announcement, they are pretty much announcing that this squabble is a major part of the forums existence. This falls foul of our hate site rules.
2) There are threads that are a clear incitement to go and cause trouble on overthegate. This is also an offense that will cause forum suspension |
Your admission that the 'hate site' decision is 'marginal' infers that the decision was made on a subjective interpretation of the circumstances, rather than on a clear-cut factual transgression of T&C. In any event, 'Point 1' now becomes moot.
This statement makes no reference to 'current legislation' or 'criminal activity' (sic), nor do your T&C in consideration of the above. As far as I was aware (and I really don't know much about proxy servers) the thread (no longer 'threads') merely highlighted the fact that these utilities can be used? So again, no transgression of T&C was committed, as it was less a direct incitement and more a passing of freely-available information.
With further reference to the Computer Misuse Act, Section 1, Paragraph 1, Part 'b' states that 'unauthorised access' is an offence in itself, punishable by up to 6 months in prison, as well as it being a seperate offence under the Data Protection Act..............if it can be shown that a forum admin has indeed attempted to such access, can assurances be given that the matter will be treated with a similar level of gravity shown to the complaint in this thread, whereby OTG admin are complaining about being called names?
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admin (no pm's please)
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| Posted: Sat May 09, 2009 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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This is all getting silly. I really don't think our T&C need to mention that incitement to criminal offenses is not allowed. That should be totally obvious, as it should also be obvious that any incitement to attack/spam other forums is not going to be tolerated. The T&C is a guide to be read by reasonable people as a set of rules they should follow.
Is it so hard to get your admin on here and get some assurance that we will see an end to this behavior from your forum?
As already stated several times as well, I am not the slightest bit interested in this thread in your counter accusations against their forum. If there is a case then create a new thread with some solid facts and they will be considered.
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quixote
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| Posted: Sat May 09, 2009 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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| admin (no pm's please) wrote: | | This is all getting silly |
It was 'silly' from its very inception! Of course the T&C exist as a guide to reasonable people, but if certain individuals choose to make an absolute fairground ride out of an issue that resulted from their own petty, immature & spiteful actions than this reaction is only to be expected! I would've thought that as admin of MFF you would have been able to instantly identify this as the nonsense it is, rather than create a situation whereby an entire thread has been created at the waste of an afternoon..............................
As far as the counter-accusations are concerned, I really couldn't care less about raising them. My time & effort is better spent in a productive manner,rather than attempting to gain a spiteful recompense for some imagined slight.
My involvement in this thread was mainly to highlight the fact that the reasons for CW being suspended are in direct conflict with what yourself, and your published T&Cs actually state.
At present CW admin is away from his PC (as certain individuals are well-aware........hence the timing of the 'complaint') I'm sure he will be along shortly with a statement to the effect that OTG's existence will be ignored in future................
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| Posted: Sat May 09, 2009 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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What I do find disturbing is that there is not a single acknowledgement here of wrong doing.
There is no addressing the issue that threads inciting people to cause trouble on another forum are wrong. The lack of such a realization that this squabble has degenerated to an intolerable level is not having a good effect on your forums case.
The correct response from you and your forums admins goes something like this.
| Quote: |
semi-legitimate whinge that we took direct action with the suspension.
Acknowledgement that things had got stupidly out of hand.
Request for reinstatement.
Assurance that you accept your share of the blame in this and that you will take control of things from now on, and delete the offending material.
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Bravo
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| Posted: Sat May 09, 2009 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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| quixote wrote: | | At present CW admin is away from his PC (as certain individuals are well-aware........hence the timing of the 'complaint') |
Can you elaborate on that please? You don't have to go into personal details or anything, we just want this complaint to be treated 100% fairly for all parties concerned.
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Graham The Builder
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| Posted: Sat May 09, 2009 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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| admin (no pm's please) wrote: | | What I do find disturbing is that there is not a single acknowledgement here of wrong doing. |
And the complainant is also very quiet at the moment as well.
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quixote
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| Posted: Sat May 09, 2009 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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| admin (no pm's please) wrote: | | What I do find disturbing is that there is not a single acknowledgement here of wrong doing. |
But hang on a sec..............all the references I've made to the fact that action was taken against us in relation to a technically non-existant breach of T&C seem to have been ignored.
If you expect admin from CW to make any redress for alleged wrong-doing then you have to accept that our response to the spirit in which the complaint was made actually bears up, otherwise it's merely a forelock-tugging exercise on the side of CW.
Yes, I agree that the sensible course of action is to immediately apologise & give an assurance that there will no further incidences (to which I can almost certainly accede to on behalf of CW admin), but to do so with no attempt at defense is merely reinforcing the impression that any frivolous complaint such as this is going to be taken seriously, and will undoubtedly result in further complaints being made by OTG with even less credence.
However, in the interests of keeping our forum available to our members, I've spoken to CW admin & have been granted leave to offer assurances on his behalf that the offending post will be removed, and that no further references will be made to the events that led to this afternoons paddy.
Note:
Bravo? To elaborate on my comment re' CW admin, the forum is open to guests and visitors, and we've been aware for some time that certain vistors are paying close attention to posts. In this instance, we're fairly sure that the complaint's been made with certain foreknowledge that the forum wll be suspended and that this will coincide with a period of time when the admin is unreachable, thereby denying members the use of the forum until such time as the complaint is resolved. Good job he wasn't in Australia on holiday, isn't it?
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Bravo
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| Posted: Sat May 09, 2009 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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| quixote wrote: | | Good job he wasn't in Australia on holiday, isn't it? |
Precisely the reason I asked, if he were, then it is quite likely that the forum would have been reopened until he got back (though that is of course Admins call to make and his only).
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quixote
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| Posted: Sat May 09, 2009 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you.
No doubt CW admin will add his comments once he's available
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Graham The Builder
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| Posted: Sat May 09, 2009 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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Thankyou for your understanding in this matter.
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