| Archive for myfreeforum.org Before posting please check the "stickies" in the support forums. Please ask questions in real English and not "txt". You will get a better response. Please do not ask support questions via PMs. |
| daler=p |
SSL - Requesting You Take Action!I reporting the following forum:http://swapitshoplounge.myfreeforum.org/ I am reporting this forum due to its Admins making a serious mistake. A member on there, 'Adam', asked another member, David_Tennant_4_Eva-xx, to strip for him on webcam. Now, Adam is 16 or 17 years of age while David_Tennant_4_Eva-xx (Ellie) is only 12 or 13 years of age. He has apparently done similar things to this several times before. Adam was banned but the Administrators of the forum allowed him back, even though they are aware of what he has done. Now, correct me if I am wrong, but letting a known paedophile back on to a forum aimed at young kids is a serious mistake on their part. Apparently he has promised he will change, but paedophiles don't just suddendly change. I believe the Administrators have knowingly endangered their users while their aim is to protect the safety and well-being of their users. Therefore, I am requesting you take action and shut down the site before something bad happens. If proof is needed, I can get it. This is a serious matter, yet the owner of the forum decides it is something to joke about - can provide links to specific threads if needed. If you don't take action on this matter I will be taking his IP adress (he is banned on a forum of mine) and reporting him to the police. However, I will be mentioning this site as you are hosting the offending forum which is harbouring a known pervert who I believe to be a meanace to it's users. Unless you want to be associated with 'his kind', I suggest you take action. I will leave the matter with you. 
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| symon |
Your biggest mistake here is the threats to this forum at the end of your post.
We do not take threats lightly and do not close forums down just because someone threatens to run to the police etc etc. If there is a know paedophile on that forum then it is up to the forum owner to take action,, we have no proof. This again is another one of these anti swapitshop arguments... We have only your word and maybe a few rambling threads about it ,, its a kids forum kids will make stuff up and others will jump on it. |
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| daler=p |
I wasn't threatening this forum, I was merely saying, you are involved as you are hosting their forum.
As I said, you need proof? I can get you proof. |
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| symon |
Re: SSL - Requesting You Take Action!
That is a threat and a rather childish one as well. Your complaint should be with the forum owner first and formost,, if they wish to take no action that is up to them ,, as i said this is your word as far as we know. |
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| daler=p |
It wasn't a threat, it was a warning.
If you don't take action, I will. And the last thing you want is to be associated with an incident like this. |
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| symon |
This is going no where so im locking it until Admin returns .
But one last point its getting rather boring and childish with the monthly lets close another swapitshop forum.... the net is a big place and there is plenty of room for 1000,s of these sites, with out childish admins doing anything and everything to close each other down |
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| admin (no pm's please) |
I can't add anything to what Symon has said.
You present nothing but hearsay and make threats. If this was not just another childish exercise in shit stirring against another forum then I'd expect evidence, and you to have attempted to deal with the forum owner. |
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| symon |
I locked the post for the simple fact you provide no evidence and just keep repeating that unless we act on no evidence and do not get your wish , you will report us for something that we have no evidence on. Admin has replied to this thread and has reopened it.. the point stands we do not act on hear say and the word of one person ,, we do not close forums down on a knee jerk reaction. The point also had to be made that over the last 3 years there has been a war of admins between nearly all swapitshop forums,, most of the complaints made have been about these forums, and most if not all are petty childs play. |
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| daler=p |
As I said, if you want evidence then I will get it and get back to you. For the last time, I have not made any threats. I have merely said that you are involved if I report the owners as you are hosting their site and have not taken action. If you want to get all defensive and interpret what I have said as a threat then thats up to you. I told Symon when I PM'd him that I have spoken to the forum Administrators, but they are under the impression he will change just because they have his word. Paedophiles don't just magically change their ways. The Administrators were unwilling to take action so I brought the problem to you because as their hosts you have the power to do something about it. Anyway, this is not just hearsay or 'shit stirring'. As I said, if you want evidence then I shall get you evidence. |
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| admin (no pm's please) |
Of course your tone is threatening 
If you had any real interest outside of a swapitshop dispute, then you would have been trying to get the actual offense reported to the police, and offering the IP evidence to help back it up. It would not be reported here at all. Instead you make a report report here aimed at shutting a forum down for a poor admin decision, which for all we know may not be a poor decision at all as you have told us nothing useful. |
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| daler=p |
I am actually in the middle of reporting it to the police at the moment as well. However, my decision to mention the site and you as the hosts is based on what happens with this. My complaint to them is rather useless if you are still hosting the offending site.
http://swapitshoplounge.myfreefor..._Happened_to_Adam_about64076.html - If you read that thread, mostly towards the end, you will see what I am trying to tell you. The last post in fact the forum owner is joking about this matter, I personally fail to see how paedophilia is an amusing subject. http://swapitshoplounge.myfreeforum.org/ADAM_is_back__about65296.html - This thread also. As you can see, I am not just making up stories about this member, everyone knows it happened. You can also notice the Staff are taken it as a joke. 
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| symon |
Your so called evidence points at nothing more than a campaign of hate from you ,, many people are saying he was joking , even the girl he was meant to have asked has not even posted anything about it apart form i said what ?
You have been warned on that forum about this , so now you come here ? I see nothing on there apart from someone who may or may not have said something that was taken the wrong way.... if it was as serous as you made out then why has the girl in question not posted ?? why has she not gone to the police herself ??? i see nothing in both threads apart from a lot of joking alot and a lot of hate posts mainly by you . The police will not be impressed if that's all the evidence you have as it proves nothing more than something was said that may have been joke but taken the wrong way . |
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| admin (no pm's please) |
I have alerted the forum to this thread for their comments.
If the core facts are undisputed, then they will have to ban such an individual. That simple issue has been clouded by your previous record on swapitshop squabbles and the way you have reported this 
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| daler=p |
What are you talking about? In neither of the threads linked to are there any posts by me what-so-ever, nor have been warned about this matter on there. 
So, you won't take my word that he is a pervert but you will take the word of his friends on there that he was just joking? Seems fair.
Maybe she doesn't understand how serious it is considering she is only about 12 or 13. I can get more evidence if you so wish, just thought those threads would be worthwhile to this. Admin, thank you. I would like to see what they have to say on this matter. |
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| Daniel(u1bd2005) |
Reading through that first thread I have to agree with symon, from what other people are saying this seems to be nothing more than a joke gone wrong.
The admins took action against Adam, now they have let him back. Thats the kind of action that I feel is appropriate to be honest since it just looks like a joke gone wrong to me. Also, by reading the posts in that thread I understand that the said offence happened on msn, not the forum, in my opinion the admins didn't need to take any action whatsoever, they have actually been pretty bold in making a decision based on something that happened outside the forum. And also, everyone deserves second chances, everyone CAN change, it doesn't matter who or what they have done. I still believe this to be nothing more than a joke gone wrong from what I've read though. |
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| admin (no pm's please) |
Here I differ, if someone has demonstrably behaved like a predatory pedophile, they are not acceptable on a forum used primarily by teenagers. This is common sense. |
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| symon |
I agree on this also however my points yesterday were simple , there is no real evidence to say it happened. |
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| daler=p |
I agree and is what I said in my first post. Daniel, there is no proof that he was joking other than the say-so of a couple of his "friends". You can't just get through life saying you were joking about something when it goes wrong and then expect there to be no consequences. "What did I do, officer? In my defence I only asked the kids to strip as a joke!" Good luck with that one in court.
Also, about it happening on MSN, so what? He acts like a paedophile but he will be fine on a forum full of kids? I fail to see the logic there. If it happened on MSN or not, the Staff know and its up to them to deal with this and protect their users, which they have failed to do. Symon, I am currently working on getting you more evidence at the moment. Since the offender used to be on one of my forums I had contact with him. I asked him why he got banned off this forum and asked if the stories about him were true. He simply blocked me and refused to talk about it. I understand others who tried got a similar response. I understand this is not really the concrete evidence you are looking for, but to me it shows nothing more than a guilty conscience. |
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| symon |
This maybe the case and im a father of 7 so if true i,ll be first on the wagon to get him kicked...
However i never jump on a bandwagon until i see real evidence.. True story i saw a man grab my daughter in the park,, he just ran up to her picked her up and ran a little with her.. I was going to kill him when he put her down ... first reaction was he was a pedo or a child snatcher.... BUT ,, the reason he did it was there was a hornets nest very close to where she was toddling off to ,, if she had carried on she would have been stung badly... he saved her It pays to step back and see the whole picture before jumping in fisting waving. |
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| daler=p |
I understand what you are saying. As I said, I am currently in the middle of gathering more evidence to support my argument. This evidence will also be used in the report I am currently building which will be sent to the police. |
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| symon |
If you provide enough then i,ll be the first to apologise to you.
but you have to understand we get alot of unfounded complaints about ss forums almost weekly so first reactions with nothing on the table is ,,, here we go again. Guess i should have sat back and waited myself instead of flying in , so lesson learnt to me . |
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| Bravo |
The fact of the matter is, that a lot of paedophiles use the internet to 'groom' children.
As a parent, I would rather ten innocent people were banned than one guilty person slipping through the net. |
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| Daniel(u1bd2005) |
As an uncle to 10 neices/nephews I know what you mean, but the point remains, innocent until proven guilty, not the other way around. If sufficient evidance was posted then I would have no arguments, but there's been no real evidance posted upto now. In no way am I defending what he did, it was wrong to do it, but it's just from what I can read it appears to have been a joke gone wrong. I don't visit that forum, I don't know anyone involved, so all i have to go on is what has been posted. |
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| symon |
People have a right to voice their opinion here of course but i think its time we left this alone until the forum in question has posted their say ..
All this is doing at the moment is labelling what could be an innocent person as a pedo ,, enough mud flung and all that .. So please can we all hold off until then . |
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| daler=p |
Appreciate that, I do understand where you are coming from. I apologise myself if I came across as threatening at first. I was not threatening this forum or any of its users, just wanted a quick solution I guess. How much evidence are we talking about before it qualifies as 'enough' and action can be taken? Just wondering. I have PM'd the user David_tennant_4_eva (the girl Adam asked to strip) on another forum she is to try and get a truthful explanation of what happened in her own words. I am awaiting reply to that. I also talking to another member that Adam was involved in some 'suspicious behaviour' with. They are currently searching their MSN chat logs to retrieve a conservation where he aimed to obtain details such as address and mobile number by lies and deceit. Any of this going to help my case at all? Bravo, I hear what you are saying. If nothing is done here then a guilty and potentially dangerous individual is going to slip through.
Have you only alerted Joey (the owner of SSL) to this thread as the other Admins have been active on the forum all day and they have been partially involved in making the decision of allowing Adam to return? |
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| admin (no pm's please) |
The owner email address has been emailed and Zero who appears to be the main admin has been PM'd on that forum. | ||||||||||||||||
| daler=p |
Oh ok. As far as I am aware, Zero is highly innactive on there and has not been online in a while. The owner e-mail address might be Joey's not sure. Might be worth PM'ing Joey, EAP or Yxz as they are the active Administrators and will of most likely been the ones involved in the decision to bring back Adam. So, the evidence I can offer (mentioned in my last post), is that going to be of any use here? |
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| Splash |
Hi there,
Im not fully aware on everything and going ons that has happened with adam, but what had happened was outside of the forum and therefore we can not really be blamed for users giving out personal details and emails. I know this sounds bad but members do not have to display information on there profile we try and protect users details as much as possibily. I know some users can tend to trust others but I think everyone knows the basics of being safe on the net. As for the banning, and letting him back im not 100% sure why he has been let back (EAP & YXZ are the current admins and they make most decissions due to me and zero being busy). But I have no proof on whats happened, and therefore I don't know, I've had no private messages from David_Tennant_4_Eva-xx about it, if she thought it was a real issue then she would of told someone and reported the email address to its provider/police. I don't mean to be rude, but the forum can't do much about the situations which happened off the site, we try our best to keep the site safe to use.
To be honest this is why I dislike my own forum so much, it causes too many problems like this, but I try to keep it going for its members. Joey |
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| Splash |
Sorry, I decided to Ban Adam for life.
I Guess this only way to deal with it. |
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| daler=p |
Appreciate it. I will provide you with evidence once a bit more research has been done to prove you made the right decision. |
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| admin (no pm's please) |
Realistically people don't always report issues. So that is not an adequate response.
The weight of evidence as I see it, is that you have a forum member who has tried to prey on your teenage members. We simply cannot allow that whether a formal complaint has been made or not. There are only three course of action I can see from here: 1) You provide us some convincing testament (by pm if need be) that this issue is nothing like what it sounds like. 2) You permanently ban the user concerned. 3) Your forum gets shutdown. |
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| admin (no pm's please) |
Good one  Missed that as I was composing my reply.
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| Splash |
Ive banned the user, he will not be returning ever again,
Ive made a thread to members highlighting online safety as GA. Im really sorry for what has happened, I dont spend much time on the forum anymore, But neither do I want the forum shut down
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| daler=p |
Thanks for all your help, both Admin and Symon, appreciate you spending your time trying to sort this out.
Splash, appreciate your quick action, you made the right decision. Not wanting to carry on this mess as the main issue has been sorted, but while browsing SSL for posts by Adam which could be used as evidence against him I found certain threads which I believe break the T&Cs of MFF. Would it be okay to discuss these within this thread as both the forum owner and the host are here? |
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| Zudane |
If the member is banned and he has posts that go against the T&C just contact the admin on that forum and inform them of those posts.
All they need to do is edit or remove them, at most. |
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| daler=p |
They were not by the now banned member, I just found them while browsing for posts by him. The majority of the posts I wish to raise an issue with are actually in threads posted by one of their Super Moderators. |
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| admin (no pm's please) |
Are these really issues or are we back to finding trivial breaches and shit stirring? | ||||||||||||||||
| daler=p |
Well after reading your sites T&Cs several times I believe they have been breached, but its up to you decide really. If you believe the issues I want to raise are not a real issue for you then thats fine, just thought I would report while we were on the subject. I am not 'shit stirring', I just found certain threads while browsing which I believe to breach the T&Cs. If you don't agree, I am not going to argue and I will drop the matter. |
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| admin (no pm's please) |
Since you haven't said what they are we cannot comment.
But if you really wanted to be constructive you would be talking to them in the first instance and not us! |
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| abc12345 |
If anyone wants it, I have the chat log of the conversation between Adam and David_tennant_4eva. | ||||||||||||||||
| daler=p |
I will say what they are now. Was just asking if I was allowed to continue this discussion or whether I would just be accused of 'shit stirring' again. Pointless me carrying on if I am just going to be accused of lying and trying to cause trouble before I have even had a chance to say what I want. Really? My understanding was that if someone found a forum that was breaking your T&Cs they were to make a report/complaint here and if you thought the complaint was valid you would contact the site. Have I got all that wrong?
Anyway, on to the threads in question: 1) http://swapitshoplounge.co.uk/Rap...e_Account_Premium_about63153.html The Rapidshare terms and conditions state that "Premium users are obligated not to reveal the user names and passwords which are communicated to them. A transmission of user names and passwords to third parties is prohibited." As far as I am aware that is not allowed under your T&Cs, I could be wrong. 2) http://swapitshoplounge.co.uk/Wiimote_Hacks_about63540.html http://swapitshoplounge.co.uk/Rap..._360_controllers__about62642.html Such things as rapid fire controllers for 360s ruin games for proper players and are technically a cheat/hack. While the forum is not based around this, a user is being allowed to promote such products which I believe to be against your T&Cs. Again, feel free to correct me if i'm wrong here. 3) http://swapitshoplounge.co.uk/Pop...ools_Among_People_about65782.html http://swapitshoplounge.co.uk/How...od_without_iTunes_about65777.html http://swapitshoplounge.co.uk/_Wi...wn_f_w_2_2_1_BETA_about64661.html http://swapitshoplounge.co.uk/Wha..._work_using_a_R4__about63103.html As far as I was aware, R4s are not technically legal and the software/programs in the threads linked to are generally seen as a grey area in terms of their legality. Staff should of noticed such and the threads should of been removed. They should of also noticed that the majority of these threads are being posted by spam-bots. Finally, I know that illegal discussion and the promotion of illegal activity definitely breaks your T&Cs: 4) http://techblog.dallasnews.com/ar...ple-says-it-is-illegal-to-ja.html - Apple decided that 'jailbreaking' Ipods/Iphones was illegal. SSL even brought this to the attention of members - http://swapitshoplounge.co.uk/App...ak_is_now_ILLEGAL_about57243.html - yet decided it was a joke. http://swapitshoplounge.co.uk/How...ur_iPod_Touch_2G__about56541.html http://swapitshoplounge.co.uk/Un_Teathered_Jailbreak__about60120.html http://swapitshoplounge.co.uk/My_...h_2G_Screen_Shots_about56460.html Threads including guides on how to 'jailbreak' your Ipod, some of which include links to external sites or download sources for such software, are linked to above. Since Apple deemed 'jailbreaking' illegal they are discussing and promoting illegal subject matter while also linking to third parties hosting downloads of what can be deemed as illegal software. As far as I am aware, it is also illegal to modify/hack the firmware on your Iphone. If someone reported this to Apple they could even take legal action against the individuals if they so wished. |
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| query |
No they can't. They can contact the upstream provider and/or the individuals and request it be removed, if it isn't removed then they can take action. For example, if I upload a copy of Harry potter, the film, to rapidshare and then Warner 'find' it, as long as rapidshare remove it when they're asked to, no action can be taken. If it were any other way, I could upload copyright material to your forum and have you arrested.
You're a moron, do you know the definition of a paedophile? A paedophile is an ADULT who is attracted to CHILDREN. If a 16 year old boy is attracted to a 13 year old girl, that's not paedophilia. Secondly, I'm sure there are a variety of members here who have had relationships where the gap has been over 3 years, you're trying to justify your shit reasoning. I'm not trying to say what adam did was right, I don't know what happened, but he is not a paedophile. It is not the responsibilty of the administrators to protect their users, it's the responsibilty of the user themselves, if I give out my address here and get raped, who's fault is it? Oh yes, the "admin" because he didn't stop me! What twisted logic, once again changing it to suit your silly way of thinking.
You do know that paedophilia based tendencies are not chosen, they're mental, the same way you don't choose to be gay or straight, it's just another sexuality/fetish. It can also be 'cured' as such, it could even have been a mistake on Adams part. I'm sure there's a time when you've seen a girl and thought "wow, she's hot" not realising her age, if you later found out she was 13, does that make you a paedophile who deserves to die? According to you, it would. Seriously, grow up. In fact, I just went back over your post and my god, you don't seem to grasp basic concepts. DISCUSSION OF SOMETHING ILLEGAL IS NOT ILLEGAL AND/OR COMMITING THE ACT. Murder. I just mentioned murder, should I be arrested?
I bet I'll find a post of yours where you mention something illegal. God almighty. |
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| admin (no pm's please) |
All a load of sheer trivia. | ||||||||||||||||
| Ben |
Hi,
This topic has been brought to my attention by another user so thought id post. I am an admin on SSL, and quite frankly, as an admin, It is not really any of our business what our members do in their own time on MSN. Adam, (The one being accused of going on webcam etc), has been a member on our forum almost since it started. He makes constructive posts, and whatever he has been accused of on this topic, it did not start from our forum, and it did not happen on our forum.. If our users which to do something on MSN, surely that is none of our business and we should not get involved. You should be reporting their MSN accounts to Hotmail. Because this 'Adam' guy did not do whatever he did on our forum, there should be no real reason for us to ban him? Surely? I dont hate him, and Im not friends with him, so my comments are not biased or whatever the correct phrasing would be. I am pretty sure when Adam is walking down the street to go into shops they dont say "OH NO, you cant come in, you asked someone to do something on MSN so you cant have anything to do with us".. no, they wouldnt say that, because they would want his business, and want him to come in and spend his money.. Its the same sort of principle with a forum, it has nothing to do with us.. just because hes a "customer" in a sense, (if you put it in the same sort of form as going to a shop), we shouldnt really have to exclude him from using our forum. Besides the point, whatever he asked somebody to do, from what I have heard, they didnt even do it anyway! So it kind of shrinks the accusation to as little as nothing. Someone could ask their friend to go and shoot somebody, (worst possible example), if their friend said no and didnt do it, that person who asked them wouldnt be arrested for murder, because they havn't actually done anything! Admin, after reading my points above, could you please explain why we have been forced to ban one of our very active users? I dont see this is fair on the individual as they havn't done anything wrong on swapitshoplounge itself. Thanks, Ben (Yxz on SwapitshopLounge - 1 of 4 Admin's) |
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| query |
Pressure, that's it. There is no legitimate reason to ban him, it's just easier to say "Fine ban him" than have some moronic twat (Hi daler!) spend the next 2 years telling everyone MYFF allows paedophiles on their network and that they should never go on the website, because it'll make them one too! |
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| daler=p |
I said I could be wrong, I never claimed to be a lawyer or know the ins and outs of the laws regarding copyright infringement, did I?
Yes, I do actually. Attraction is one thing, asking a girl 3 or more years your junior to strip on webcam is a different matter. There may be, but if the girl is 16 or over the age gap, as long as it is not excessive, is not as much of a big deal. Paedophile or not, Adam also obtained another girl's (aged 14) phone number and address by lies and deception. Whether you can technically define him as a 'paedophile' is irrelavent. A member like that is a danger to a forum and it's users. All you are doing is splitting hairs.
Did I ever say it was the sole responsibility of the Admin to protect its users? No. All I said was that they have a certain duty of care in this regard. You are just exaggerating everything I have made for some pointless reason.
Thanks for your interesting insight into the mind of a paedophile, it is really beneficial to this thread. Firstly, I can genuinely say I have never done that. Secondly, you are just exaggerating what I said again. Seeing a girl of 13 or whatever and thinking she is hot is one thing, acting on it and acting innapropriately towards her is another.
I could say the same to you. You post seems to have no relevence to the thread what-so-ever and its sole purpose appears to be to have a 'dig' at me for incorrectly using the term 'paedophile'.
Under the 'No you can't' section of MFF's T&Cs it says "Promote warez. Post links to copyright material on file sharing or other services that are not regarded as reputable public operations that take full responsibility for material on their servers." As far as I can see the illegal subject matter is being promoted with guides and such. Yet again, all you have done is take what I said out of context completely and exaggerate it pointlessly.
Good luck with that one, feel free to PM me. Also, I would appreciate you not taking the Lord's name in vain. |
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| daler=p |
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| admin (no pm's please) |
I am not going to argue this endlessly.
By all accounts that we have heard, and we have invited any solid facts to the contrary, we have an illegal action against a minor, and we are not talking about technicalities here like a 16 year old boy and their 15 year old girlfriend. So whilst it is clearly on the low end of the spectrum of offenses, it is something that if the girl concerned had reported it to the police action would have been taken and it would be classed a pedophilia. No responsible admin can allow that on a forum, and we cannot allow that as hosts. |
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| query |
You linked to a topic discussing the ban of jailbreaking... how is that promoting it? You made a topic about paedophiles, so you're promoting child porn?
Oh what a surprise, you're a bloody Christian. |
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| admin (no pm's please) |
I am going to lock this. All that needs to be said has been said. | ||||||||||||||||
| admin (no pm's please) |
Once more if I used too many syllables last time
You CANNOT let someone that all the evidence suggests is a predatory pedophile (regardless of degree) on a forum frequented by minors. This is not rocket science. |
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