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SpitTheBit

MFF Owner Duplicating All Content On Our Site

The owners of the MFF site www.betusvegas.com have been copying and pasting all of the topics, posts and replies from a forum that I moderate.

80% of the content on their "Harness Racing Board" is content that has been lifted from us. They repost it saying "here are some things that people are saying" since they apparently do not actual posters to discuss topics on their site.

Basically, the owner is a horse racing handicapper who is selling his "race picks" through the MFF site, as well as having paid advertisers. But I have been getting numerous complaints from users on our forum regarding their content being ripped off and posted on such an undesirable site that usually includes racist remarks and references to "the Gestapo" when referring to industry businesses owned by Jewish people.

What are the policies regarding MFF sites and stealing content from other forums? And I'm not just talking one line here or there, I'm talking entire topics and pages of replies.
myff admin

We do not allow that kind of behaviour. But we do need to see the evidence, you have made allegations without links to support them.
SpitTheBit

What I am really interested in, is whether or not the forum owner who posts under the screen name "DN" can just create the bulk of his forum's content by simply copying and pasting it from our site. If I were to list each example, it would literally take forever, it would be easier to just post the original content from said site and say "the rest came from us." Here are some examples, I didn't did past the first page for the copied content. I have members on my site who are complaining that their exact names and posts are being directly copied as well, including my own. I guess in order to increase counts they are creating users using member names from our site and then posting what said members say on our site over there. It's gotten to the point where I have members not posting because they do not want their words duplicated on a site that posts pictures of Baby Hitler and referring to a racetrack as "Gestapo Downs."

Directly Copied From Our Site:

http://teamnance.myfastforum.org/...d_Questions_From_People_about6422

Our Links To Copied Material:

1st Post in Thread:
http://www.barntowire.com/smf/index.php?topic=46213.0

3rd  Post in Thread:
http://www.barntowire.com/smf/index.php?topic=46218.0
http://www.barntowire.com/smf/index.php?topic=46216.0
http://www.barntowire.com/smf/index.php?topic=46211.0

4th Post in Thread:
http://www.barntowire.com/smf/index.php?topic=46221.0
http://www.barntowire.com/smf/index.php?topic=46220.0

5th Post in Thread:
http://www.barntowire.com/smf/index.php?topic=46213.0  Reply #9 &10

6th Post in Thread:
http://www.barntowire.com/smf/index.php?topic=46213.0 Reply #12

7th Post in Thread:
http://www.barntowire.com/smf/index.php?topic=46213.0 Reply #17

8th Post in Thread:
http://www.barntowire.com/smf/index.php?topic=46213.0 Reply #18 &19

9th Post in Thread:
http://www.barntowire.com/smf/index.php?topic=46211.0  Reply #6
http://www.barntowire.com/smf/index.php?topic=46218.0  Reply #3 & 5

10th Post in Thread:
http://www.barntowire.com/smf/index.php?topic=46218.0 Reply #8

Thatís just the first page, of ONE TOPIC, of a three page threadÖthe rest is the same, just copying our content and pasting it on their forum.

More:

Entire Thread Copied: http://teamnance.myfastforum.org/..._Found_At_Wal_Mart_about6464.html
From: http://www.barntowire.com/smf/index.php?topic=46283.0

See Posts 7 & 8: http://teamnance.myfastforum.org/..._BE_1_MILE_IN_2012_about6426.html
From: http://www.barntowire.com/smf/index.php?topic=46235.0

See Post 7: http://teamnance.myfastforum.org/...S_AT_THE_NEW_BIG_M_about6412.html
From: http://www.barntowire.com/smf/index.php?topic=46159.0

Taking Our Posterís Names and Including Material that Was Posted and Then Immediately Taken Down On Our Site For Violation of Terms: http://teamnance.myfastforum.org/...9793.php&highlight=nazi#39793


Gestapo/Hitler:
http://teamnance.myfastforum.org/...8.php&highlight=gestapo#61018 Post #6 (And most of the content was copied from our site, less the hate speech, so now our words are mixed in with a photo of Baby Hitler)

http://teamnance.myfastforum.org/...65.php&highlight=hitler#60265 Post #4 referring to a Jewish owner and respected business man in the industry as Hitler (just one of many)


Homophobia:
http://teamnance.myfastforum.org/...96.php&highlight=faggot#17696 Post #12
http://teamnance.myfastforum.org/...6.php&highlight=faggish#17566 Post #4 &11
http://teamnance.myfastforum.org/...2306.php&highlight=homo#22306 Post #10
juicejunkies

It is ongoing and recent, yet the owner of the betusvegas forum has a checkered past with these actions.

betusvegas version


barntowire version

betusvegas is a scam site trying to sell people numbers in which they are to be used to bet parimutuel racing.   Typically these types are referred to as touts.   In an effort to appear as a decent member of society one must seem credible and that is the only reason to steal topics and members posts.

Please help.
claimkingsn

Re: MFF Owner Duplicating All Content On Our Site

SpitTheBit wrote:
The owners of the MFF site www.betusvegas.com have been copying and pasting all of the topics, posts and replies from a forum that I moderate.

80% of the content on their "Harness Racing Board" is content that has been lifted from us. They repost it saying "here are some things that people are saying" since they apparently do not actual posters to discuss topics on their site.

Basically, the owner is a horse racing handicapper who is selling his "race picks" through the MFF site, as well as having paid advertisers. But I have been getting numerous complaints from users on our forum regarding their content being ripped off and posted on such an undesirable site that usually includes racist remarks and references to "the Gestapo" when referring to industry businesses owned by Jewish people.

What are the policies regarding MFF sites and stealing content from other forums? And I'm not just talking one line here or there, I'm talking entire topics and pages of replies.


Who is this person sending you this complaint? To say 80% of our content was lifted from their site is a lie. We have been in business for a year and a half and have 293 members and a strong following. If anything the website sending you this has allowed members of that board to bash me, my family, slander me and my family. That website has gone as far as to let it's members post my personal information such as my addresses, my phone numbers, personal court documents, where my wife works, and much more. Barntowire is soon to named into a lawsuit because of slanderous libel material posted on that site since 2005 against me, my wife, my daughters, my grandchildren, even my deceased mother. There are hundred of pages of posts that need to be copied from that site. Shall I go and grab the links from barntowire and show you the libel posts that the owner of barntowire allowed to be posted on her site? A lawsuit against another website who has engaged in the same activity as barntowire against me and my family already has been sued. You can view the complaint here.
    http://teamnance.myfastforum.org/about5817.html

Anybody in this world can quote anything anybody said. I have had copyright material taken from my website and posted on the forum making complaints.  

To call our website undesirable is offensive. We run a clean horse racing website. Anybody has their right to their opinion in this country and if anybody feels a business is treating their people horrible like the Gestapo did and they want to use the word Gestapo that's their business. What right does this person making this complaint have to tell anybody what words they can use when referring to a business that's treats people like the Gestapo did. There is not one thing racist or Homophobia thing about betusvegas you have totally got to be kidding me with this entire complaint. If anybody should be doing the complaining it's me but I don't know who hosts the site barntowire that has allowed people to tear my life apart for the last 7 years. I even have proof the the moderator/ Admin/owner of barntowire bashed me under troll names she made up. She went so far as to even try and contact my daughter on facebook to get information about my family and make a false complaint against her own father. We plan on proving that in court with IP addresses linking barntowire's owner to troll posts if the court demands IP's must be turned over.

At one time I was a poster at barntowire. In 2004 that site was nothing, then I showed up and put the forum on the map and brought thousands of members to the forum. I was Barntowire's number one member. In 2006 after I got tired of defending myself on the site and tired of the abuse against me and my family that the owner of the forum allowed people to post I deleted my account and left. Since then that forum has gone downhill and the owner can't stand that Team Nance started their own website with success that's when she allowed my family's personal information be posted for public view. Only after she learned a lawsuit has been filed against another site did she bar people from posting my name on the forum. But, all the old posts dating back 6 years still remain for viewing including my wife's personal court documents.

Another point, many of barntowire's members are members of our forum. Some tried to show up as trolls to cause us trouble and we had to ban them when we learned why they were there. We don't allow vulgarity or people being bashed on our site like barntowire allows. We don't allow members to be offensive to other members like barntowire allows on their forum. We have not received not one e-mail to betusvegas@gmail.com complaining about anything posted on our site. Nor has the Admin ever been contacted about a complaint.

This entire complaint and situation is something I feel MMF should not get involved because it goes much deeper then the eye appears.
claimkingsn

juicejunkies wrote:
It is ongoing and recent, yet the owner of the betusvegas forum has a checkered past with these actions.

betusvegas version


barntowire version

betusvegas is a scam site trying to sell people numbers in which they are to be used to bet parimutuel racing. † Typically these types are referred to as touts. † In an effort to appear as a decent member of society one must seem credible and that is the only reason to steal topics and members posts.

Please help.


MMF

This unknown person juice junkies is not a moderator at barntowire. What this person is, is a trouble maker. He tried to join our forum under the name of Javalina1 to troll and he had to be banned. He is also a member at the forum horseplop.com the one that is being sued by my wife and daughter for libel and slander. This person is very bad news watch out. Take time to view what this person posts on horseplop under juice junkies. Here is the link below but beware this site is very bad. They have gone as far as to register my screen name, use my banner, and act like it's me posting there. This is the stuff I have to deal with on a daily basis with these people and this juice junkies person.
http://www.horseplop.com/index.php?board=2.0

MMF take a look at this link posted below on horseplop.com about me and my family with juice junkies contributing and you can see why a lawsuit is filed against the site.
http://www.horseplop.com/index.php?topic=13693.0

MMF I am requesting that you distance yourself from any of this nonsense and lock this topic because I don't care to answer to any of this anymore from people who are out their trying to flip the facts and truth. This is a waste of my time and yours.
claimkingsn

juicejunkies wrote:
It is ongoing and recent, yet the owner of the betusvegas forum has a checkered past with these actions.

betusvegas version


barntowire version

betusvegas is a scam site trying to sell people numbers in which they are to be used to bet parimutuel racing. † Typically these types are referred to as touts. † In an effort to appear as a decent member of society one must seem credible and that is the only reason to steal topics and members posts.

Please help.


I forgot to mention. We have been in business selling professional information product long before we made our own MMF forum. Other websites also sell information professional product to horse players. Please read our disclaimer below.

BUV Disclaimer
http://teamnance.myfastforum.org/about254.html

Like I stated before this unknown person juice junkies is some sort of nutcase with a vendetta against Team Nance trying to cause trouble in anyway he can. Everything we do is legal and everyone knows it. We are trying to run a business here but you have jealous people in the horse racing business that try and cause other people trouble with nonsense like this. This person needs to go to church and find the Lord.
claimkingsn

MMF

My last statement. This is a fact. You are not dealing with any moderator of any forum with the name  SpitTheBit and juice junkies. These two names are screen names used on many other horse racing forums. All these people are trying to do is cause my website trouble if they can plain and simple so the contacted MMF to try and do just that. SpitTheBit and juice junkies are internet prowlers looking to cause as many people in the horse racing business a problem as they can. I suggest you put a stop to this at once.
myff admin

At the moment the complaint is about copying of material and I have seen little or nothing in my first glance through your many responses which addresses this breach of copyright.

Please address the actual complaint. If indeed posts are being copied wholesale I will have to support the complaint. I am not at all interested in a dispute that I have no knowledge of, when the clear legal issue of copyright abuse is on the table.
claimkingsn

myff admin wrote:
At the moment the complaint is about copying of material and I have seen little or nothing in my first glance through your many responses which addresses this breach of copyright.

Please address the actual complaint. If indeed posts are being copied wholesale I will have to support the complaint. I am not at all interested in a dispute that I have no knowledge of, when the clear legal issue of copyright abuse is on the table.


Before I post a response can you tell me what you mean by copied wholesale?
myff admin

Even a direct copy of a single post is a breach of copyright.
claimkingsn

myff admin wrote:
At the moment the complaint is about copying of material and I have seen little or nothing in my first glance through your many responses which addresses this breach of copyright.

Please address the actual complaint. If indeed posts are being copied wholesale I will have to support the complaint. I am not at all interested in a dispute that I have no knowledge of, when the clear legal issue of copyright abuse is on the table.


One other question. Before I address the actual complaint as you state can I contact my lawyer and get an answer if any copyright laws have been broken before you take the side of another site against the one you host. I also want to find out if a forum host should get involved in a dispute like this before legal charges have been filed in the matter against the owners of the website if somebody feels they have been copyrighted.

I would really like to also know what you are threatening to do?

Note: No 80% of our content comes from other places. Please take time to read 190 pages of our forum and you can see that statement is totally false.  

Also: This statement was made.

I have members on my site who are complaining that their exact names are being directly copied.

No names were copied look at the links.

I want to talk to my lawyer and ask him about this.

Under the doctrine of fair use, an author may make short quotations for purposes of criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, or scholarship, without first obtaining permission of the copyright owner of the quoted work.
myff admin

You have basically admitted 20% of your forum is copied material, we do not insist that people have to engage in legal expense to lay claim to the copyright of posts on their forum.

Either remove any copied posts referred to and refrain from further breaches of copyright or face suspension.
claimkingsn

myff admin wrote:
You have basically admitted 20% of your forum is copied material, we do not insist that people have to engage in legal expense to lay claim to the copyright of posts on their forum.

Either remove any copied posts referred to and refrain from further breaches of copyright or face suspension.


Ok, I'll remove the posts in question.
claimkingsn

The small amount of content in question has been removed. Saying I admitted to 20% of our content comes from other places in not what I did. If anything the content in question amounts to maybe 1% of 190 pages of topics and posts since June 2010. Also, it seemed to me that all that was being done was quoting people and there was no harm done at all. But regardless I will abide by the rules of MMF and if there was some sort of violation that happened. I will now look into exactly what needs to be done before you can quote somebody from other places.

Maybe the Admin of this site doesn't understand why this complaint took place and only took the action they seemed was appropriate and that's is understandable. But like I said before this goes much deeper and I will deal with that on a personal level and not involve any forums or forum hosts.

I will also now make our website a members only forum now so guests can't view and try and cause trouble for people because they are jealous evil people. Truth is, all you find on the interent and in chat rooms are mostly evil people but you WON'T FIND THOSE TYPES ON BETUSVEGAS.COM powered by MMF.
ZodiacMan

Hello.   It was brought to my attention that somehow Feuding Forums has become a issue here.   I've read this entire thread and find it most disturbing.   The Internet infinitely large.   There are all sorts of sites, and forums and topics.   In the big scheme of things, racing forums and miniscule and full of some very fine people and a number of truly disturbed, egomaniacs that are afraid of competition and are widely known in the racing world for being of questionable character and having no scruples.

For the sake of credibility, I am a member of the media.  I am a member of various Nationally recognized organizations in racing and elsewhere.  I have been recognized for special recognition and thanks from several distinguished horsemen's associations.  I was going to simply send a PM to you as site administrator here but it didn't work.   Thus, the public posting, something I'm not really pleased about doing but I will.

Barntowire is a site I've viewed for years, its had its moments of glory and some moments of terrible behavior unfit for many eyes.   I've viewed the Horseplop site which is beyond words when it comes to degrading, filth and is a horror of a site that steals personal identities, makes up stories that are beyond comprehension and if any site needs to be shut down, its #1 on the list.   But, the Internet permits this free reign of speech even if its libelous and slanderous.

In my view, the posters known as DN and SN really did put Barntowire on the Internet map.   Without them, cantankerous as sometimes they could be be telling things openly and honestly from their perspective, Barntowire and others simply would never have taken off.
HorsePlop is another site that if not for the people, the good people that run Betusvegas, would not exist today.   Its a site of rudeness and filth that is truly XXX rated and a embarassment to all of racing and to the people whose lives it has impacted very negatively.

Now let's be honest here - over the years copying and pasting threads and posts from one site to another is not new.  Its been going on for years and all the sites are guilty of it, including Barntowire.   Its shameful to see somebody come on this site and object or complain about things they've permitted themselves.   Did Betusvegas.com copy some posts?   I guess they did, though I wasn't really aware of it nor do I care.   Talking about similar issues and topices are not exclusive to sites - generally most will talk about similar things, except HorsePlop that is a swirling eddy of filth, lies and slander....

It appears clear to me that by hosting a very good site with above board posters that have knowledge and understanding of the sport and only permitting things to be done with courtesy along with a uncanny knack for handicapping winners in races, betusvegas.com is being targeted by a few malcontents that were probably playground bullies as kids.    This adult behavior is immature and very childish.

Claims of 20% of content is copied?   Total poppycock.  I read and occassionally post at betusvegas and I view it and other sites daily.   What is being alleged is simply untrue and I am here to stand up for some stand up people and to try and set the record straight.   I understand betusvegas has indicated a willingness to remove the posts in question.   Good move.   So be it.   Life is too short for such petty nonsense.  

Another poster came on here and complained about betusvegas being a scam site selling horse racing picks.   This person must live in la la land as the Internet is full of selling and online marketing.   Selling picks is done on countless sites, same as selling programs.  I for one have purchased some of the picks and am pleased with the result.  Its entertainment, nothing more.

Copyright questions?  I find that very hard to understand.   The internet is so full of copied articles and pictures and documents, its incredible that some would find a copied post objectionable?  

Well, I've said my piece.   Betusvegas is a outstanding racing forum.   Barntowire has its following too.   Likewise In The Sulky.com and then there is the handful at the embarassment site that has become the joke of them all.

Please consider that all have a place.   People need to get over it and move on.   If a gas station has another gas station open across the street, that's called competition - no way should it be shut down.   How about banks on every corner?   Walgreens?   Lowes next to Menards, competing movie houses nearly side by side.  Its no different on the net.   These complainers need to look in the mirror and keep their own house in order as best can be done and stop the whining or trying to discredit what I believe is the most creditable harness racing site on the Internet.   Its all about choices.  I wish barntowire no ill will, I simply wish they'd back off this nonsensical attack on a competitor.  It does not bode well for them or their integrity.  Thank You.
myff admin

myff is not able to judge inter forum feuds.

We can deal with matter that violate our own terms and conditions and matters that are obvious legally.

Copyright whilst ultimately a complex area is quite clear on some things, you can quote small parts of an article/post when its usage is "fair use" e.g. something you are commenting on, but you can not copy articles completely, without permission or attribution.

e.g. the links posted showed clear copyright violations.

Whether the complaint is hypocritical is not our concerned, our concern is not to be complicit in illegal activity.

I am going to lock this now, as it is in danger of become just another battleground in a feud we have no wish to be involved in.

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