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Zudane

Custody

Okay.. so I'm in a custody battle...  Had an agreement since '07, start of '09 I moved out of the county and our 5day/2day custody agreement wasn't feasible, so we made an agreement between ourselves for 2 weeks at a time with each of us.

End of may she decided she didn't like that agreement, and she went to the police who threatened me with contempt of court for a custody order violation.  Same day she filed a report with child protective services (CPS).  The following week she filed an emergency custody hearing (claiming I neglect her, have no income, have a house full of pornography, she's abused, in a house with drugs...).  Court pretty much threw out the emergency hearing, ordered us to go to mediation, end of the week CPS showed up an investigated.  And found nothing wrong.

Mediation was today, and my ex demanded first: to have my daughter during the school year (she's 3 and apparently enrolled in a christian preschool - I'm against putting religion on children [please don't argue this, it's my choice]).  Then she demanded full custody... and nothing less, even said she'd get an attorney if needed.  I wanted a 50/50 custody agreement, nothing extreme, just fair.

We never settled on anything, so wednesday I get to figure out what the custody order is... and I know my ex won't be happy, so we'll end up going through even more fighting.

I don't hate people.. but I loathe my ex.  She doesn't like me much either, but that's a bad excuse to try to remove me from my daughter's life.
WarcraftDiscussions

Man, life's a pain ain't it. Well, good luck. Not sure that you'll need it what with her arguments proving futile, it seems. As far as I can read she's just over-stressing it.

My parents are divorced, and my dad lives in Washington, my mom in Oregon. Our school is in Oregon (mine and my brother's), so we're at my mom's most of the time. Then *hopefully* every other weeked we go up to my dad's. Then in summer we spend like a month and a half (about) with each parent. Not sure why I tell you this, but it's here. Any ways, best of luck with the issue.
myff admin

Never a winner in these situations.

Hate to say it though, but I tend to think that 50/50 custody is not a great thing for kids I have never been directly involved in this sort of thing but my instinct says one main home and one main set of rules is easier for them.
Bravo

I don't know how 50/50 would work unless you lived close to each other so there was continuity in schooling etc.

What a lot of people forget is that they once did care for one another on some level at least given the fact they produced a child together, and it is in the childs best interests for them to be mature about it and try to 'help each other out' and be accommodating towards each other so that the child comes out on top.

No matter what happens the child must always come out on top.

A bit of seeing things from the other persons point of view can go a long long way in these situations.
symon

Bravo wrote:


What a lot of people forget is that they once did care for one another on some level at least given the fact they produced a child together, and it is in the childs best interests for them to be mature about it and try to 'help each other out' and be accommodating towards each other so that the child comes out on top.

No matter what happens the child must always come out on top.


When you are in this situation it is very hard to be friends, or even mature at times, you are both fighting for your siblings, every bit of dirt and dirty trick can and will be used.

Of course the kids will be hurt though out the process, even if nothing is said and done in front of them , they will see the hurt in either or both parents eyes and feel their hurt.

50/50 is bullshit ,,,, unless as stated you live so close , but even then alot of parents will play one off against the other. 1 home 1 main rules means stability for the kids.

As bravo has said the winners must be the kids, however is their really a winner as such, i have just fault ofr my kids in court and won them , they are living with me where they wish to be. I class that as the kids won , but of course on the other hand they have lost daily contact with their mum, so in another sense they have lost as well. God how i loathe my ex as well and yes its been a long and nasty and almost bloody battle ,, thankfully now its over and the main thing is the kids have stability.

Most if not all cases the mother seems to win, and most if not all the mother thinks the kids are a weapon and some sort of collateral, they seem to forget it takes two make a baby and its their god given right to play god with that child.
Zudane

We were never married, only dating.  It ended up as one of the things that relationship got bad, she never went back for the birth control shot (13 week shot), and intended to get pregnant to try to save the relationship.  Obviously didn't work.  She's bipolar, a compulsive liar, and is manipulative.  The problem is that I can't get the courts to see that.

I'd like for her to be with me primarily, but I wanted some more balanced custody before she starts school, which NORMALLY isn't until she is 5.

I'm having trouble dealing with it because she's making all these claims, and I can't disprove them.  The mediator doesn't seem to care much that she can't prove them, but I've often heard of our mediator siding with the women.  But, I will try to get things settled in court tomorrow, of not then I am pushing it further.
Bravo

Of course we all have differing approaches to this issue, for my part, two of my children were with my ex, and of course we weren't on each others favourite lists (thats a given, or we wouldn't be splitting up).

She came out with the usual x,y and z that women (from my own and other people I know experience this is 100%) come out with about stopping you seeing the kids etc etc etc

I persevered with her and kept calm despite all manner of provocation (you can call me anything you want, if I rise to it I lose my kids so I don't rise to it - simples).  Eventually she saw that the kids do need a father, and I saw that the kids do need a mother.  It made sense for her to have them because I had better skills and thus could provide financially better for all of us.  And so long as she was looking after them correctly that was fine by me.

Apart from a couple of hiccups along the way its worked out pretty well and we're 8 years down the line.  I don't talk to her unless I need to, I arrange to pick the kids up with the kids and there haven't been any problems at all.

So, all I am saying is, keep a cool head and try to be reasonable with each other.  Even women in superbitch mode can be reasonable when they see your intentions are good.
Zudane

I've been through months of trying to be nice and accommodating for my daughter's sake.  The problem always boils down to what mood she is in.  If she's afraid something will go wrong, or in one of her good moods, then things go great, but if she's not then I have absolutely no idea how things will go.  It goes from calling the cops one day to her wanting to be nice the next, then the cops are called just a few days later.

I deal with her just for my daughter's sake, and say only what I need to.  The week that she filed with the court for me to lose custody... I got my daughter after the court hearing, and my daughter didn't want to go to me.  An hour drive home and she was crying that she wanted mommy and daddy (my ex's fiancee - first time she called him that around me), she also said she didn't love me and that I wasn't daddy.  None of that is anything she has done before.  I can't help but be suspicious when my ex tries to remove me from my daughter's life legally and at the same time my daughter doesn't seem to want me in her life.

Again, my daughter is 2, she's not going to change her mind like that on her own.  After we got home she was happy with me, but it took a little time for her to be settled.  Since then she's said "daddy spanks me" and I've clarified that she didn't mean me.  And last week my ex dropped her off - with no shoes, and no idea where her shoes were.  I keep 4 pairs of shoes for my daughter, no matter what happens, she has shoes.
Zudane

Got the hearing done today... the recommendation was for me to have my daughter from 6pm thursday until 6pm friday, with the weekends alternating (weekends being 6pm friday until 6pm sunday).  So I get 24 hours one week, then 72 hours the next.

I can see in no way how this is remotely fair to myself or my daughter, but all I can do is go through with an assessment, which is $275 for each of us to pay.  I paid that today and am hoping it goes through fast, but I can't say for sure that it will be.
Full Tilt Boogie

Bravo wrote:
What a lot of people forget is that they once did care for one another on some level at least given the fact they produced a child together, and it is in the childs best interests for them to be mature about it and try to 'help each other out' and be accommodating towards each other so that the child comes out on top.

No matter what happens, the child must always come out on top.


The above, in bold, is the clincher here: your wants and hopes are very much secondary to your daughter's needs. If you accept that now, this will go a lot better for all concerned.

And you have to STOP thinking about this in terms of your ex-wife "winning" - if you can do that, it will mean you are capable of putting your daughter's requirements and needs before your own and, as has been said, the child needs as stable an environment as possible, and doesn't need (nor will she benefit by) being passed from pillar-to-post between the two of you in what sounds like a bitter custody battle. The kid didn't ask to be here and doesn't deserve it, and neither should you impose it on her.

If you put your daughter's needs first, the rest will fall into place.

Good luck.
Zudane

I'm not thinking of her winning, I see it that her mother is bipolar and has a history of abuse, lying, manipulation and drug use.

If she is raised by her mother, I fear that my daughter will be raised very poorly, even if it is survivable.  I feel that I could provide a much better environment for my daughter to be raised in.
Full Tilt Boogie

Zudane wrote:
I'm not thinking of her winning, I see it that her mother is bipolar and has a history of abuse, lying, manipulation and drug use.

If she is raised by her mother, I fear that my daughter will be raised very poorly, even if it is survivable.  I feel that I could provide a much better environment for my daughter to be raised in.


In which case, if you feel that strongly about it, and there is clear evidence to support what you you say about the condition and mental states of your ex and her mother, then get a lawyer and secure the ending you seek.

Assuming what you say is clearly clinically provable and not just your opinion...
Zudane

well, for one, trying to prove that someone is manipulative is rather difficult.  Beyond that for family law they won't dig into medical records unless there is a DEFINITE reason for it, and without the records I can't give that reason.  Criminal law courts are different, but they wont' do it for family law.
Full Tilt Boogie

Zudane wrote:
well, for one, trying to prove that someone is manipulative is rather difficult.  Beyond that for family law they won't dig into medical records unless there is a DEFINITE reason for it, and without the records I can't give that reason.  Criminal law courts are different, but they wont' do it for family law.


Sorry, but if there is sufficient reason to suspect that there might be any risk whatsoever to the child, in leaving her with either her mother and/or grandmother, then the courts can and will subpoena the medical & mental health records of both of them - indeed it's the court's duty and a legal requirement to do so. It falls under their purview of duty of care.

If, as you have claimed, the grandmother is 'bi-polar', then there will be a medical record of her being treated for that condition - along with a suitably qualified medic who can then make any appropriate prognosis and evaluation in explaining to the court whether either or both is a risk to the child or not.
Zudane

as I said... criminal and family law are VERY different.  I know you're from the UK, in the US things are slightly different.  Unless there is an IMMEDIATE NEED, meaning that her life is in danger NOW, then they will not go for medical records.  I honestly don't care what you argue, unless you are going through this process with a US court you cannot tell me I am wrong about it.

Where you get the grandmother from I don't know.  My ex is bipolar, she's manic depressive, and used to be taking Topamax and Seroquil.  Topamax was her upper, Seroquil was her downer.

What can be proven in court is only what is hard proof.  The way she acts is not documented, she is not on some TV show that follows her around.
Full Tilt Boogie

Moderated: 1

I am removing this post, not that there are not some small valid points in it, but because it is plain unpleasant.

If you cannot be nice, then don't post.

admin

myff admin

Issues like these are senstive, and I'll concede that tough words may need saying.

I have already myself stated that I don't think 50% custody is a good idea and that raises the issue of either conceding gracefully for now, or pushing for main custody.

But there is no need for snide and nasty point scoring attacks. That will not be tolerated at all.
Full Tilt Boogie

LOL, you mean it made him look silly?

Err... OK.

Jobs for the boys now then?

This place gets more impressive by the day.
WarcraftDiscussions

Don't know why I didn't post this earlier, but yeah, 50/50 is kind of shit. But mostly because my dad lives about three hours away. So it's six hours of driving just to have spent 36 hours with my dad. There are a few things to look forward to when going to visit him, one being he's nice. Another is that he isn't as protective as my mom. The last one, that I can pretty much stay up as late as I want. So basically it's freedom. But, that's off-topic. The real thing, that everyone is really getting at is: split-ups and divorces ruin lives, not only of parents, but also of children. No matter how yound or old, or passive as the child is, it's going to affect them. So, the only way to truly get your daughter's needs first, is to first ask her what she wants. And if she says "mom and dad together" explain why that isn't happening then ask her again. The drives back and forth are really just a pain to the kids. The only way to get 50/50 to work somewhat smoothly is to live close(ish). Otherwise, f**k it. The moving back and forth just gets to be a pain.
Zudane

I think you have a good point admin, and I think bravo was the one that said that a child needs one main home, and that's one that really caught my attention.

I have to agree with that, one place to call home, really.  Once the assessment starts I'm going to try to have that main home for her.  I can't see my daughter being raised in a good environment by my ex, same with her other child (another father - who is debatable), but I can definitely see myself raising her in a good environment.  I know it'll be hard to raise her single, but I am willing to do what I need to to give her a good life.
Bravo

As a species we care very much for our young.  There are no ends to the Earth to which we shall not go, and no terror we would not endure to do all we can for them.  This is of course in our nature, and so it also is for us as a socially minded species where we also look out for the children of other people in almost the same way we do for our own.  

So this subject by it's nature is one close to all our hearts, therefore it is only natural that passions will run high wherever there is disagreement about how best to care for a child.

While we all can sympathise with Zudane and what he is going through, we also all know that never shall you get the full tale by listening to only one side of it.  We have to place our trust in the American family law system and hope that the end decision is the right one for the child.  From what I have read (bearing in mind we only know the Zudane version and I have absolutely no reason to doubt it) then the right decision should be that Zudane has the child assuming he has some way of providing for all her her needs.
myff admin

Full Tilt Boogie wrote:
LOL, you mean it made him look silly?

Err... OK.

Jobs for the boys now then?

This place gets more impressive by the day.


No it made you look like an unpleasant shithead, with nothing better to do than gleefully stick the knife into people.

Keep out of this topic as you have nothing to add. You are so close to another ban...
symon

May i remind people that this thread is about the heart ache of custody of children.

If you have never been though this , then you really do not know how one feels and how many games are played regardless of what others may think or say.

This thread was started with the intention of seeking advice , it has quickly become a points scoring children's playground.

Seriously people this is a support forum for your forum, we allow an off topic to try and build a nice community , if you are not contributing to this, and only coming here to snipe be aggressive or rude, then it is best that you stay away.

Anymore anti threads to wards members or staff will be removed and the poster placed on moderation/ banned depending on the servility .
Zudane

Thanks for that Symon.  All-in-all this thread was more for venting than seeking advice, but it's turned out to be a bit of both.  Going through this I've gotten a ton and a half of advice, a lot of it is the same thing repeated though.  There have been a few things that have stuck with me though.

Currently I'm just waiting it out to see where the next step will get me, and preparing for the worst if it comes down to it.

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