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Bravo

cjk777

Frankly I am disgusted that nothing has been done to stop them using illegal macros to illicitly gain chips from PartyPoker, and also nothing has been done to stop them from getting together and colluding to cheat honest players out of real money.

I am, as always, bluntly honest. This is a disgrace, Martin, an absolute disgrace.
admin (no pm's please)

Something has been done, they have been contacted and I'm awaiting a response.
This situation has been ongoing for a year without complaints being made, and as such a knee jerk reaction is not appropriate.
CJK_KAM_CJK

Let me introduce myself. I am kam, from cjk777.myfreeforum.org. I am the "K" in CJK - thus one of the owners/admins of that forum.

I want to dispell certain notions going on here.

First, we do not provide any macros that work with REAL money games on any online poker or game site. The macros that are provided are simply for play money games, they are as pointed out by the admin here, automata. They are not odd's calculators, nor are they hacks into communications between partypoker servers and their clients. They are writtin in a Macro Language called Quick Macros (www.quickmacros.com), which merely automate windows, mouse and keyboard commands. It works on top of the Windows Shell.

Secondly, if you were to go read our forum, you will see that we do not condone nor accept any pornographic material. We have stated such to the entire membership and we moderate the best we can to ensure it doesnt happen.

The site was created with the users mostly coming from Party Poker. To be a player on Party Poker, you need to be 18 years or older. And I will admit that some of the threads are risque. But we moderate to take out any pornography.

A new user was created today as myfreeforum and made a post stating the rules and linking a couple of posts here. I would expect the admin of myfreeforum to work through email, therefore I banned that user for trying to create drama on our forum.

I hope this explains our position and what we do. We do not feel we are breaking any of the terms and conditions of this site.

If we are, we would ask that the admin contact us through the associated email used when creating our forum.

Thank you for your time.

-kam
Bravo

Kam, you fail to address two very important points.

1. Macros are not permitted by PartyPoker. Play money or not.

2. You haven't addressed the issue of collusion. This is tantamount to a bunch of conmen and conwomen, which again is against PartyPoker Terms and Conditions.
CJK_KAM_CJK

Bravo wrote:
Kam, you fail to address two very important points.

1. Macros are not permitted by PartyPoker. Play money or not.

2. You haven't addressed the issue of collusion. This is tantamount to a bunch of conmen and conwomen, which again is against PartyPoker Terms and Conditions.


Well, what we do is not illegal in any way. There are many software packages that are provided for sale that are odd's calculators and that do try to "hack" code. THere is no legal way for Party Poker to put a stop to those, but they can do something to any user who is caught using them. Party Poker does not allow the use of third party software. And they have a way of dealing with it. And frankly it is their business, not yours.

Also, your accuastions of "collusion" are unfounded and without any proof whatsoever. It is merely your opinion. So please state it as such. You are entitled to your opinon and I would never dream of even trying to convince you otherwise. However, if you can show me a shred of proof, then I think you need to call Party Poker and have them handle it.

Again, we do not condone doing or taking any illegal actions.

-kam
Bravo

Quote:
Also, your accuastions of "collusion" are unfounded and without any proof whatsoever. It is merely your opinion. So please state it as such.


I found several threads with regard to this, and I sent example url's to the MFF admin. So yes, proof found, seen and sent.

Quote:
And frankly it is their business, not yours.


When I have used PartyPoker in the past and paid real hard earned money then this is indeed my business.

You are trying to dance around the issue with legal technicalities. Of course this isn't 'illegal' as the internet doesn't yet have an internationally recognised legislative body. 'Legal' it may be, but morally it is wrong, and it is 'illegal' in the respect that it breaks PartyPokers terms and conditions.

You might think you are smart, sunshine, but you aint smart enough. Pathetic cheaters like you ruin the whole online experience for many millions of people. Just because you can't be bothered to put the time, patience and sheer hard work into increasing your experience and skill...relying instead on shifty deals and colluding with other like minded people.
admin (no pm's please)

Email has failed as a point of contact, and the email address for the user created on your forum clearly proved it was legit. Banning that user without attempting to address the issues lead to inevitable action being taken.
admin (no pm's please)

I have for the time being unsuspended your forum, I suggest you unban myfreeforum and continue the discussion here.
CJK_KAM_CJK

admin wrote:
Email has failed as a point of contact, and the email address for the user created on your forum clearly proved it was legit. Banning that user without attempting to address the issues lead to inevitable action being taken.


Admin,

To give you some history, there are many Party Poker themed boards (forums) out there. THey are very competitive and some of them are very drama oriented.

I saw a post made in a general area called Introductions, that linked to this site and said things about us that are not true. They are simply accusations. I would not have expected an Admin of this site to go "post" on our forum. If it was you, I apologize, but I am sure you see my point. I know that if anything goes wrong with the forum and we have to conduct business with you, we must do that business via email from the email that created the account.

The person who owns that email is unavailble for the short time period.

He will answer any questions you have regarding these alleged issues.

I am not here to cause drama in anyway, but I dont like being attacked. I am not responding to Bravo anymore as he personally attacked me, which is quite immature when having a serious discussion.

We would like to get this resolved as quickly as possible and have the forum up as soon as possible.

Thank you.

-kam
Bravo

Just for the record, I would like to share a PM and my response to that PM with this discussion:

The PM I received:

wally550 wrote:
hi
first let me interduce my self im wally and i am a cjk fan not for the poker but for the fun we have on that site so why you spoil that all for us
i am not mad but i dont think its fair because we just wanna have fun.
and i really dont wanna start any drama here.

hope this informs you on what the most of us do on that site.

gr wally


My response:

Bravo wrote:
Hi Wally,

The site does indeed look to be a fun site. One I would enjoy myself.

However, the administration of the forum are currently allowing the use of macros.
They are also allowing players to get together and collude with each other to con genuine players out of real money.

That cannot continue.

I am sure if the administration of the forum cleaned up their act with regard to this that the forum would be reinstated immediately. I have no wish to 'bring down' the forum, I just wish to put a stop to the bad behaviour.

I hope this clears the issue up for you.

Regards,

Bravo
CJK_KAM_CJK

Admin,

That user name has been unbanned. However, I do not see why our private business needs to be discussed on our forum.

I have detailed out what we do. Bravo does not have any proof, because frankly it is wrong. WE NEVER DISCUSS REAL MONEY THINGS on the forum. As a matter of fact, I do not even play real money on the internet. I do nothing to promote real money games, in anyway shape or form. Not how to play, collude, or cheat in any way.

The posts he is alluding to, were about doing a PLAY MONEY TOURNAMENT, where we all joined the tournament and had a good time. Again, it was a PLAY MONEY (FAKE CHIP) tournament. And yes I did use the word macro there, but that was a macro that merely got the standing of all of the users from our forum weeded out from all the total users. It was not interferring with the tournament in anyway.

Thank you.

-kam
CodyT07

Party Poker wrote:
We are committed to detecting and preventing software programs which are designed to enable any artificial intelligence ("AI Software") to play on our site such as, but not limited to, opponent profiling, player collusion, cheating software or anything else that we deem enables you to have an unfair advantage over other players. You acknowledge that the Company will take measures to detect and prevent the use of such programs and AI Software using methods including but not limited to screen scraping or reading the list of currently running programs on a player’s computer and you agree not to use any AI Software and/or any such programs.
http://www.partypoker.net/about_us/legal_information.html
Bravo

CJK_KAM_CJK wrote:
Admin,

That user name has been unbanned. However, I do not see why our private business needs to be discussed on our forum.

I have detailed out what we do. Bravo does not have any proof, because frankly it is wrong. WE NEVER DISCUSS REAL MONEY THINGS on the forum. As a matter of fact, I do not even play real money on the internet. I do nothing to promote real money games, in anyway shape or form. Not how to play, collude, or cheat in any way.

The posts he is alluding to, were about doing a PLAY MONEY TOURNAMENT, where we all joined the tournament and had a good time. Again, it was a PLAY MONEY (FAKE CHIP) tournament. And yes I did use the word macro there, but that was a macro that merely got the standing of all of the users from our forum weeded out from all the total users. It was not interferring with the tournament in anyway.

Thank you.

-kam


If further proof were needed, then this admission of guilt is it. Quite blatantly goes against PartyPoker rules.

It is a different question whether this is against MFF T&C, admin will of course be the judge of that.

Kam, your forum does look like a fun forum, and, apart from these transgressions, looks to be very well run.

There is plenty to discuss with regard to poker without having to break PP rules.
CJK_KAM_CJK

CodyT07 wrote:
Party Poker wrote:
We are committed to detecting and preventing software programs which are designed to enable any artificial intelligence ("AI Software") to play on our site such as, but not limited to, opponent profiling, player collusion, cheating software or anything else that we deem enables you to have an unfair advantage over other players. You acknowledge that the Company will take measures to detect and prevent the use of such programs and AI Software using methods including but not limited to screen scraping or reading the list of currently running programs on a player’s computer and you agree not to use any AI Software and/or any such programs.
http://www.partypoker.net/about_us/legal_information.html


Yes, and they deal with it, as it is their business.

But lets take a look at the image of your post. Because the adds that were on it were kind of fun. THey are for poker cheating. We have seen these adds on our site and we dont control that. If the admin of this site is allowing those people to advertise, then he too is condoning cheating at online poker.

Now we all know that I dont beleive that is a TRUTH, but it is the same kind of logic we are being attacked with.



I do not know why the image is not coming up. I am trying to host it on photobucket instead of my website, perhaps that will help.
CodyT07

Well if i cant access your forum, ill let my friend Google do some searching. Lets see what macros you site http://www.cjk777.net/upccontents.html has i believe are unfair.
Quote:

This macro replaces the conventional Auto
Fold (AF). It will select the "Deal Me Out"
check box and monitor the hands and every
15th hand, it will deal you in, get cards and
fold. This way you will never get booted off the
table. You have four times that you can
choose to be dealt out, 15, 30, 45 or 60
minutes. After the selected time has passed,
the DO macro will go into a different mode.

This macro will simply raise every bet. It is
typically used with Giver so that the giver can
fold.

Integrated into UPC are seat stealers. There
are stealers for each seat as well as an all
seats. These macros essentially will try to
click on the open seat button very fast. When
someone leaves a seat, this button appears
for a split second, the macro takes advantage
of this to get the seat. NOTE: You cannot run
the stealer on multiple tables at once. This
slows down the stealer thus we have
programmed it to work that way.


Oh And lets not forget about this one.
Quote:
Chipper (Clicker)
There is an automatic chip accumulator, a
chipper. You use this macro to build your
bank up so that you can play without the need
to get chips from pp.

I say thats unfair.
CJK_KAM_CJK

CodyT07 wrote:
Well if i cant access your forum, ill let my friend Google do some searching. Lets see what macros you site http://www.cjk777.net/upccontents.html has i believe are unfair.
Quote:

This macro replaces the conventional Auto
Fold (AF). It will select the "Deal Me Out"
check box and monitor the hands and every
15th hand, it will deal you in, get cards and
fold. This way you will never get booted off the
table. You have four times that you can
choose to be dealt out, 15, 30, 45 or 60
minutes. After the selected time has passed,
the DO macro will go into a different mode.

This macro will simply raise every bet. It is
typically used with Giver so that the giver can
fold.

Integrated into UPC are seat stealers. There
are stealers for each seat as well as an all
seats. These macros essentially will try to
click on the open seat button very fast. When
someone leaves a seat, this button appears
for a split second, the macro takes advantage
of this to get the seat. NOTE: You cannot run
the stealer on multiple tables at once. This
slows down the stealer thus we have
programmed it to work that way.


Oh And lets not forget about this one.
Quote:
Chipper (Clicker)
There is an automatic chip accumulator, a
chipper. You use this macro to build your
bank up so that you can play without the need
to get chips from pp.

I say thats unfair.


And yet, all of those things are merely automating keyboard and mouse clicks that any individual can do using their hands.
Symon

WE have to remember that the contents of their own site is their business and and nothing to do with Myfreeforum, it only becomes our business if they are providing links to cheats on their forum thus breaking the t@c
admin (no pm's please)

CJK_KAM_CJK wrote:
Admin,

That user name has been unbanned. However, I do not see why our private business needs to be discussed on our forum.


It was only discussed as no response was forthcoming on email contact.

As for what we allow to be advertised, then that is an irrelevant issue as google controls those adverts, we cannot actually filter them.

There is a need for these complex issues to receive a public airing, as I do not claim any great knowledge of the ins and outs of online poker.
CJK_KAM_CJK

admin wrote:
As for what we allow to be advertised, then that is an irrelevant issue as google controls those adverts, we cannot actually filter them.

There is a need for these complex issues to receive a public airing, as I do not claim any great knowledge of the ins and outs of online poker.


If you read my full post, I even allude to that. I was just pointing out the irony of it. This topic is about that we supposedly condone cheating on an online poker site, yet the google adds on this thread were for poker cheaters.

I meant the airing on our forum - cjk777.myfreeforum.org. Not the airing of the issues here.
CHRIS777

Admin,

I have replied to your concerns in my pm to you. Furthermore, I don't feel we have to explain ourselves or be attacked by the members here and what their beliefs are. We are doing nothing illegal and should not have to answer to anyone besides you for our actions since you are hosting our forum. Please lock this thread for I am not responding to any of the false accusations made against cjk777.

Thank you for you time,
Regards,
Chris
Bravo

The concerns with regard to your site exist whether you want to discuss them or not.

You DO break PP terms and conditions.
You DO collude, whether on play money or real is irrelevent.

I know that the original person who brought this to the MFF admin team (not me btw) has already reported your forum to PartyPoker (or at least he told me via PM that he had). People like you and your members cost sites like PartyPoker a great deal of lost revenue. What you might consider 'harmless fun', they would consider a major expense.

So simply saying 'I don't have to respond' doesn't really do yourself any favours at all. It just makes you out to have a standpoint from which you will not move, leaving the debate option of resolving the issue closed. Closing debate off leads to more action. IE This problem wont go away just because you dont want to talk about it.
admin (no pm's please)

CHRIS777 wrote:
Admin,

I have replied to your concerns in my pm to you. Furthermore, I don't feel we have to explain ourselves or be attacked by the members here and what their beliefs are. We are doing nothing illegal and should not have to answer to anyone besides you for our actions since you are hosting our forum. Please lock this thread for I am not responding to any of the false accusations made against cjk777.

Thank you for you time,
Regards,
Chris


I am not going to either put a blindfold on, or act as a go between, between you and people who believe your forum promotes destructive cheating activity.
I would much rather not ban forums, but if you are saying you have no defense you are able to put against a public accusation, then you will force me to draw the conclusion that you are in breach of the conditions.
Bravo

I would just like to say in total honesty that I have no desire for any harm to come to the cjk777 forum. A good fun forum about one of my favourite pastimes is something I like to see!

The obvious solution I see to this problem is the removal of any and all links to download macros and the prohibition of their discussion. Further, a posting to members that collusion between cjk members is not allowed.

If that is done, then everyone can breathe a nice sigh of relief and go about their merry way. Everyones a winner.
CHRIS777

admin wrote:
CHRIS777 wrote:
Admin,

I have replied to your concerns in my pm to you. Furthermore, I don't feel we have to explain ourselves or be attacked by the members here and what their beliefs are. We are doing nothing illegal and should not have to answer to anyone besides you for our actions since you are hosting our forum. Please lock this thread for I am not responding to any of the false accusations made against cjk777.

Thank you for you time,
Regards,
Chris


I am not going to either put a blindfold on, or act as a go between, between you and people who believe your forum promotes destructive cheating activity.
I would much rather not ban forums, but if you are saying you have no defense you are able to put against a public accusation, then you will force me to draw the conclusion that you are in breach of the conditions.


It has nothing to do with us not being able to defend ourselves or not, we are very capable of doing so. But who's the judge and who's the jury. Why should we have to explain ourselves to anyone or defend our actions for false accusations or why should we be put in a position to do so. We created our forum to have fun, this is not fun having to defend ourselves because of one disgruntled ex-member. If you see no logic in what i'm saying, then we have nothing else to discuss. But, as has been previously said, we have not breached any of the rules or regulations that you've set forth. Kam has explained to you what macros are, they are merely automation tools of simple keyboard and mouse clicks. We are not hacking anyone or any site in anyway. We would love to send you a copy of our macro so you can try it out as have thousands of others.

One last question, who gets to define cheating, your members or ours. Everyone has an opinion and it shouldn't be your decision to ban us or let us keep going based on opinions. It should be based on facts. Accusations do not warrant hasty decisions.

Regards,
Chris
Bravo

Whichever way around it you go, the macros are against the terms and conditions of PartyPoker. You are fully aware of this.

Indeed, this post bemoans the fact that one of your macros no longer works due to PartyPoker having updated.

PartyPoker are constantly trying to keep one step ahead of things like this, in the same way that punkbuster try to keep ahead of exploits and hacks and macros in other online games.

You know this, I know this, everyone involved knows this. You simply want to be able to continue to cheat.
Symon

There is no jury on here the members of the support forum are admins or members of their own freeforums, there is only one judge that is Admin, he has the right to pull the plug on any forum that break the T@C , however other users of myfreeforum also have a right to flag any forum that may be breaking the terms and conditions as if such a company like party poker brought a law suit it could effect each and everyone of them.

However you dont have to answer to any personnel attacks, we are merely asking you to shed some light on the accusations that have been made.
CHRIS777

Bravo wrote:
Whichever way around it you go, the macros are against the terms and conditions of PartyPoker. You are fully aware of this.

Indeed, this post bemoans the fact that one of your macros no longer works due to PartyPoker having updated.

PartyPoker are constantly trying to keep one step ahead of things like this, in the same way that punkbuster try to keep ahead of exploits and hacks and macros in other online games.

You know this, I know this, everyone involved knows this. You simply want to be able to continue to cheat.


Well Bravo, although i appreciate your tainted input in all of this, I will try not to be as juvenile as you have been with your responses to Kam. What concern of yours is it if simple tasks are automated. How does this constitute cheating. How does making a program that clicks buttons for you that you can do by hand constitute cheating. Get your facts straight before involving yourself in a debate you know nothing about. By your admission automated production lines that produce cars or chocolates for that matter should be construed as cheating since they are using robotics to simplify tasks that can be done by hand.

Chris.
CodyT07

I say the bot that clicks on "open seat" really fast is considered cheating. As other "honest" players take time for that seat where they could of been waiting for a minuted but this "cheater" comes up and snaches it with the "honest" player waiting.
Quote:
Chipper (Clicker)
There is an automatic chip accumulator, a
chipper. You use this macro to build your
bank up so that you can play without the need
to get chips from pp.

I dont play party poker but i think you need to get chips from PP.
Roy

I have been reading all that has been put forward and all i see is denial of the fact that there is a program been used which could be used for cheating which as Bravo rightly points out it costs people money and we are not talking pocket money here, for this i would have expected some solid proof to rule out any cheating going on on your site, now i don't have a problem with you, your members or even your site just the fact that cheating is something i do not condolle aspecialy when it costs people money.

You say you do not wish to air this out in public but if you look around thats the way its done here and your site is no different to those who have also stood before a public hearing just think if party poker wanted to the could take you to court now no one want s to see court cases been made just coz of one or two people breaking the rules or coz of a system that can or is been used for cheating when it would be so mucj more easier to come up with a new system that provents any such acusations in the future.
CHRIS777

Roy wrote:
I have been reading all that has been put forward and all i see is denial of the fact that there is a program been used which could be used for cheating which as Bravo rightly points out it costs people money and we are not talking pocket money here, for this i would have expected some solid proof to rule out any cheating going on on your site, now i don't have a problem with you, your members or even your site just the fact that cheating is something i do not condolle aspecialy when it costs people money.

You say you do not wish to air this out in public but if you look around thats the way its done here and your site is no different to those who have also stood before a public hearing just think if party poker wanted to the could take you to court now no one want s to see court cases been made just coz of one or two people breaking the rules or coz of a system that can or is been used for cheating when it would be so mucj more easier to come up with a new system that provents any such acusations in the future.


God I love ignorance, the macros we make is for fake chips, what real money are you talking about, do you even know what we do. I love that this forum is into lynching people without proof.
CodyT07

Quote:
God I love ignorance, the macros we make is for fake chips, what real money are you talking about, do you even know what we do. I love that this forum is into lynching people without proof.

Prove to us your not using them for real money. Just because your not doesnt mean another member isnt.
admin (no pm's please)

CHRIS777 wrote:

God I love ignorance, the macros we make is for fake chips, what real money are you talking about, do you even know what we do. I love that this forum is into lynching people without proof.


The only "lynch" occurred when attempts to communicate issue ended with one of your admins banning the account being used to try and get this sorted!

As of now people have a right to ask questions and you can respond. No one with any actual power is rushing to judgment.
CJK_KAM_CJK

So you want proof?

Ok lets see. Why havent you downloaded it, tried it out with real money and see what it does. That way you wouldnt be posting in ignorance (meaning that you don't know what it does).

Our site is a free site to all. You can get it - FREE.

Also, although this is an american statement, we shouldn't have to prove innocence, we should be proved guilty.

Well, enough of this. I have explained that we do not condone cheating. I have stated that our macros merely perform windows user interface actions.

IT IS NOT A CHEAT PROGRAM.

-kam
Roy

Thank you CodyT07.

At least someone understood what i was saying.

I think in my post i told you i had been reading this thread so i think that proves i know whats going on dpn't you.

People on this forum are not throwing acusations without proof though are they its just your not proving them wrong.

I have noticed your quick to try to put people down but when it comes to proving them wrong you have nothing but we are not cheating to say which in my opinion proves your guilty, so the question is when will you start to prove to us that you or none of your members are cheating?
CJK_KAM_CJK

admin wrote:
CHRIS777 wrote:

God I love ignorance, the macros we make is for fake chips, what real money are you talking about, do you even know what we do. I love that this forum is into lynching people without proof.


The only "lynch" occurred when attempts to communicate issue ended with one of your admins banning the account being used to try and get this sorted!

As of now people have a right to ask questions and you can respond. No one with any actual power is rushing to judgment.


I took the appropriate action. I banned someone that apparantly was causing drama. As in the past, you have stated in a previous post, if the post had merit, it would have been handled in a more professional manner - i.e. email and such, not a random post. I am curious though, why, if the first email you sent didnt work, and a pm on this site wasn't responded too, would the next action taken by you to be to pm the administrators on the site, via the site? Why would it be a post in a random place on the forum. Why should have we thought any differently than we did.

As soon as I found out that it was a credible member, from a legitimate source, I unbanned it.

Seriously though, this really has to stop. It is frustrating that we are in a HE SAYS - SHE SAYS situation. And there is absolutley no specific proof to these statements. We should not be held accountable to people making up stories in this manner. It is quite unprofessional.

If you want to know the truth, go to the forum and view it. Read it, all 300 thousand posts. We have them there to see. If you think we provide cheat software, go get it, use it and see what it does.

It really is that simple for you to do that. Other than that, there is no way for me to prove i'm innocent. But I will say this, I have offered you an open door to look at everything. As an admin of myfreeforum, our host, you should have complete access. So as you expect us to handle business appropriately on our forum - moderating to keep up with the t's and c's, I expect you to do the same.

I am not saying that you should not investiage accusations. I am saying that YOU should find out the truth before you create a public viewing and allow random people without fact to publicly flog us.

-kam
CodyT07

CJK_KAM_CJK wrote:
So you want proof?

Ok lets see. Why havent you downloaded it, tried it out with real money and see what it does. That way you wouldnt be posting in ignorance (meaning that you don't know what it does).

Our site is a free site to all. You can get it - FREE.

Also, although this is an american statement, we shouldn't have to prove innocence, we should be proved guilty.

Well, enough of this. I have explained that we do not condone cheating. I have stated that our macros merely perform windows user interface actions.

IT IS NOT A CHEAT PROGRAM.

-kam

I live in America. Why havent i downloaded? Why havent i tried it? Im 15!!
Trying it would be in violation of PP Terms and conditions.
actually your posting in ignorance then if you said why i didnt try it.
admin (no pm's please)

Sorry but a member with a myfreeforum.org email address is clearly 100% credible as you are using email activation.
CHRIS777

admin wrote:
Sorry but a member with a myfreeforum.org email address is clearly 100% credible as you are using email activation.


I am still awaiting for a response to my last pm to you. I would like to know where we stand in all of this.

Chris
CJK_KAM_CJK

admin wrote:
Sorry but a member with a myfreeforum.org email address is clearly 100% credible as you are using email activation.


I am sorry, I feel you are wrong. You can easily create a user, validate it, then change your email. Plus you can create fake email addresses that validate. This is the technology age where Identity Theft is prevalant.

And why didn't you do as I asked? Why didnt you pm the admins of the site with that user name? Why did you go to a public place and forum and post?

-kam
admin (no pm's please)

You are asking for an instant clean bill of health from someone who has no intrinsic knowledge of this particular situation. I have no desire to ban your forum, but equally I am not going to say thats alright then, just because you say it is.
CodyT07

admin wrote:
You are asking for an instant clean bill of health from someone who has no intrinsic knowledge of this particular situation. I have no desire to ban your forum, but equally I am not going to say thats alright then, just because you say it is.

Would be nice if Party Poker.net themself went over it and had the final say... Seems to be the only way this could end without "she said he said" as stated above.
CHRIS777

admin wrote:
You are asking for an instant clean bill of health from someone who has no intrinsic knowledge of this particular situation. I have no desire to ban your forum, but equally I am not going to say thats alright then, just because you say it is.


That about sums it up then, have a pleasant night sir and everyone here.
Bravo

CHRIS777 wrote:
the macros we make is for fake chips


This is your own admission.

Why are these macros harmful?

It takes quite some doing to click on an open seat on tournaments, especially no limit hold em. Now I find people use macros to do this I am not suprised.

Also, the autofold macros that you use spoil the tournaments for other people.

10 people in a tournament, 5 of them running macros, ie autofolding until 3 or 4 players are already out. So, no bad beats losing your pocket aces to someones pocket 4's and an early exit, because your macro autofolded your pocket aces.

I fail to see how this is 'fun'. I fail to see how this doesn't cause any harm to party poker.

People like you, and others that use these macros, see the aim of play money PartyPoker as a game of chip accumulation. It is designed to be a place of practice for people before they play the real money. There have always been the people that just keep going all-in every hand and trying to get lucky, they of course lose their chips. But half the people now are running macros, it is a joke.

You still refuse to do anything about these practices, and that is a disgrace. You should be ashamed of yourself.
US_SMOKE_MC

Well seeing how there are still links on the cjk forum which do sever as cheats the macros which I have a screen shot of Kam stating "Thanks Party Poker for changing your codes>" Now that there states code and in a reply 2 pages back Kam states that they dont use codes. I have the macros they use and they also have been turned over to party poker as well. The other issue is this. It states in the TOS that there will be no racial motivated post and if there are this violates the TOS well if you look at the rankings you will see MIDGET RULER, MIDGET GOD, SUPREME MIDGET RULER, and so on. You will find post in there about and I quote" GAY, FAG< HOMO and many members have left due to that. We have to remeber that there are 13 year olds that sign in on these forums. CJK has told many people on several occassions that there would be action taken on people that rebuke there authority. They have only built the forum on illeagle Macros if you look at the number of post and the memebr that are there then you will see that 80-90% of those people are there for the chippers and macros. That use party poker codes. They also make money off the chips that they produce from these macros just ask CJK about superbigchips that is a site that they had a paypal account set for people to pay for chips and have even sold fake money accounts on ebay for profit. So tell me that this is a ligetiment forum with the intent of good nature. The site was a soft porn site as well for quit awhile and members that said they didnt like the pic and dindnt like the racial slurs left or were banned because they "REBUKED" there athority. NO matter which two ways you look at it it is a racial site along with a community of cheat macros. Then you have the issue that the macros do alter the game for they have SEAT STEALERS that jump people in line that have been waiting for hrs to get on a table if need be i can sent you a copy of the macro, but they intentioonally encrypted the macro so it would be readable. The Macro also has an AUTO PLAY. This also is a violation under the terms and service. The CJK forum wouldnt be what it is if it wasnt for the cheat macros. 10-15% of the members have over 200 post just look at the memebrs list. But it does state in the macro they made that this is an invisible chipper. So that there shows intent to alter the game and the fun behind the game. I don't feel that this site is credible at this point if they clean it up and take out all macros and post that are racial then it would be a great site and without the admins stong arming users into doing what they want them to do. This site ruins the game of Texas Holdem in all ways. and it does deviate the way the game is to be played for fun not profit. I dont feel this site should be closed for good but do think it should be closed till it is cleaned up and follow all the TOS rules like all other forums have to. A productive forum you say not if it isnt unless cheating is productive and being racially motivated is politically correct. This site calls females HO's and how is calling a female a Ho and or a whore not a violation. How is showing soft porn not a violation. Selling manufactured chips from a 3rd party software not an illegal. The entire sigh goes well and above the TOS in the worng. I am sure there is no intedrity there with CJK they never admit to wrong doing but sure will ban a person for speasking there mind in rebuking there actions.
admin (no pm's please)

Issues of how nicely people run a forum are not relevant to the terms and conditions, as unpleasant as I think some of the stuff there is, a racial slur is not the same as running a hate site, not is it a porn site.

The cheating macros that ruin games for others is the only point at issue here, and this is where the jury is still out and not coming down in favour of this forum currently. It does seem to me that this site is taking a fun online game and wrecking it for people who want to play according to the games intent
US_SMOKE_MC

Thank you for the reply admin
US_SMOKE_MC

Quote:
CJK_KAM_CJK
Novice



Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 10

Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 10:45 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bravo wrote:
Kam, you fail to address two very important points.

1. Macros are not permitted by PartyPoker. Play money or not.

2. You haven't addressed the issue of collusion. This is tantamount to a bunch of conmen and conwomen, which again is against PartyPoker Terms and Conditions.


Well, what we do is not illegal in any way. There are many software packages that are provided for sale that are odd's calculators and that do try to "hack" code. THere is no legal way for Party Poker to put a stop to those, but they can do something to any user who is caught using them. Party Poker does not allow the use of third party software. And they have a way of dealing with it. And frankly it is their business, not yours.

Also, your accuastions of "collusion" are unfounded and without any proof whatsoever. It is merely your opinion. So please state it as such. You are entitled to your opinon and I would never dream of even trying to convince you otherwise. However, if you can show me a shred of proof, then I think you need to call Party Poker and have them handle it.

Again, we do not condone doing or taking any illegal actions.

-kam
_________________
cjk777.myfreeforum.org


Ok now sidestepping is something that the CJK site is continually doing. I for one a member on this, myfreeforum don't appreciate the way people are being treated and Chris from CJK calling other mebers of this forum "IGNORANT" If an opinion is IGNORANT then Chris from CJK is defining all as "IGNORANT" well here is this is a link to there site, that thanks Party Poker for changing there codes. If your not doing anthing illegal then why this statement. You stated in an early comment that u use no code, well you would have to if Party Poker is continually changing them? Correct?

http://cjk777.myfreeforum.org/ftopic10955-0-asc-0.php

NOW NOT JUST THE CHEAT PROGRAMS:

here is a link to a full version of Xara 3d which is a download you are supposed to pay for this this also is illegal by the TOS, Here is the link stateing from Ange an admin that "ACE-420 has given me the full retail version of Xara 3d to post on the forum." her eis the link

http://cjk777.myfreeforum.org/ftopic6123.php

HERE TALKING ABOUT SEAT STEALERS:

It again is against Party Poker rules and there TOS for any and all 3rd Party Software being Illegal. Here is the link to the members of CJK forum speaking on this seat stealer.

http://cjk777.myfreeforum.org/ftopic11523-0-asc-0.php

This entire forum is based on collusion and deception. Party Pker is well aware as well of the issue and will be dealing with it as well.

One last link as well memebrs of the CJK forum saying they will wait for Chris Jimmies and Kam "CHIPPER" to come out dated Decemeber 5th-6th showing they are still trying to defraud the game.

http://cjk777.myfreeforum.org/ftopic11831.php
Roy

You have to be a member to see those sections coz i get a screen asking me to log in.
US_SMOKE_MC

Yes so join and take a look. You dont have to make a post to view just join. You will be amazed with what you see and truly upset with the findings
PAINTEDLADY

Quote:
Allow the posting of links to sites where material can be illegally downloaded


Well I also know to well about all the cheating that goes on there the way that they treat certain members. If you go into the site you will see that there are many not just macros but also graphic programs that are supposed to be purchased on a trial period then you purchase the full version. Not there on CJK I know I have the full version of Xara 3d and got it from the CJK forum. It states after reading the terms of service that this too is against myfreeforum policy and is illegal I am sure that Xara and all the other companies like corel and ulead and psp would be really interested in a law suit once they see the programs that they make money off of are being bought by one and given out to hundreds and thousands of people for FREE use. I have removed all the downloads i ever received from CJK777 site do to the issues of it be illegally placed on the site for free.
admin (no pm's please)

Warez are strictly against the T&C and they must remove such links quickly.
PAINTEDLADY

What is WAREZ? Please explain Thank you
CHRIS777

This is actually starting to become hysterical and pathetic at the same time. I wonder what would happen if you checked the ip of paintedlady, it would be the same person as the one causing the trouble.

Here's proof

65.28.252.57 [ 1523 Posts ]
PAINTEDLADY [ 1522 Posts ]
USMC_PHENOM_SMOKE [ 1 Post ]

I can provide screenshots if you like of all the ip addresses they have posted from. It's the same person. They've combined for a total of over 4000 posts on my forum. Talk about disgruntled and vengeful.
admin (no pm's please)

Are you going to deal with illegal download links?
PAINTEDLADY

Chris you know you are wrong there we have 2 computers with 2 differnt ipsand we all know that how you can fudge a screenshot you taught many people how to do it along with the yahoo emails. I am not disgruntled or vengeful. I just know what is right and what is wrong. Smoke can sign in on my computer and I can sign in on his if i want to. We are a family which I am not in need to inform you of that. Tell them about the IP changer you have Chris and that you and your members give out to the moderators. Just like what your stating int he above this has no beaing on the issues at hand. Your forum wouldnt be even close to an 16th of what it is without all the illegal downloads. My ip is different from Smoke. We are married and live in the same house hold so the ips arnt the same and the admin can gladly check that on his records. Again you are trying to divert your wrong doing into placing blame on another. Look at Bravo, cody07, Roy and the others ip are they the same i don't think so the proof is there that your site is dealing in illegal activity and we chose not to be a part of it. That is why the complaint was made. You nver told anyone on the forum where they could make a complain that is why none were ever made. You always just told people if you don't like it get out your words in a yahoo pm. You have discolored the other free forums with your actions and now that the truth is out you are tucking your tail and trying to mask the issues at hand. Your site is nothing but a breeding ground for cheating and discrimination and now memebrs that now know they have a place to make a complaint your backtracking. You are appuling and have made all kind of derogitory comments about midgets and gays and then the issue of the cheat programs for chips. Now that people have a way to make a complaint and know that way your trying to cover your ass. Not going to work so try and dilousionalize others here as you have on CJK but it won't work with me.
CHRIS777

admin wrote:
Are you going to deal with illegal download links?


We don't have any, please feel free to browse around.
CodyT07

My IP is AOL Proxies, so A LOT of members "share" an IP with me.
CHRIS777

PAINTEDLADY wrote:
Chris you know you are wrong there we have 2 computers with 2 differnt ipsand we all know that how you can fudge a screenshot you taught many people how to do it along with the yahoo emails. I am not disgruntled or vengeful. I just know what is right and what is wrong. My ip is different from Smoke. We are married and live in the same house hold so the ips arnt the same and the admin can gladly check that on his records. Again you are trying to divert your wrong doing into placing blame on another. Look at Bravo, cody07, Roy and the others ip are they the same i don't think so the proof is there that your site is dealing in illegal activity and we chose not to be a part of it. That is why the complaint was made. You nver told anyone on the forum where they could make a complain that is why none were ever made. You always just told people if you don't like it get out your words in a yahoo pm. You have discolored the other free forums with your actions and now that the truth is out you are tucking your tail and trying to mask the issues at hand. Your site is nothing but a breeding ground for cheating and discrimination and now memebrs that now know they have a place to make a complaint your backtracking. You are appuling and have made all kind of derogitory comments about midgets and gays and then the issue of the cheat programs for chips. Now that people have a way to make a complaint and know that way your trying to cover your ass. Not going to work so try and dilousionalize others here as you have on CJK but it won't work with me.


Well, for the sake of arguments sake I can make the admin of this forum a moderator of my forum so he can check your ips and all the posts that we've deleted from the two of you or the one of you. Oh, they're not deleted they are hidden, I will be more than happy to make Martin a moderator of our forum so that he may look at your ips and your posts and finally realize who you trully are. Enough of this already.
PAINTEDLADY

Again he is just trying to divert the issue at hand. They take the macros off and the site loses members.
CHRIS777

PAINTEDLADY wrote:
Again he is just trying to divert the issue at hand. They take the macros off and the site loses members.


What, no talk of manufactured screen shots anymore??

I love a battle of wits with witless people.
CHRIS777

CodyT07 wrote:
My IP is AOL Proxies, so A LOT of members "share" an IP with me.


I see, so your post makes alot of sense and really backs them up. Let's see, the only two people complaining about us happen to share the same ip. Great arguement Cody. You're 15 right, leave the witty replies to the big boys from now on. Ty.
PAINTEDLADY

Wow comming from a Midget God that was almost canning hun but good try i am not the stupid one here trying to manufacter anything. You are a cheat this is a vilolation of the TOS. You don't want to take the Macros off because it will hurt your forum rating as you said to many is the key you kept posting we willbe #1 thats all it is to you it wasnt about fun it was about a status for you and your cronies and now to resort to childish name calling show a bit of respect your the fool not me!
PAINTEDLADY

2 people read again Chris you again are wrong and there you go again demeaning people of the forum this isn't cjk and you can't treat people like you do there. And yes he is right cody that is, AOL has a different IP than singing in through road runner or comcast just ask AOL. and roadrunner just got off the phone with both.
CHRIS777

PAINTEDLADY wrote:
Wow comming from a Midget God that was almost canning hun but good try i am not the stupid one here trying to manufacter anything. You are a cheat this is a vilolation of the TOS. You don't want to take the Macros off because it will hurt your forum rating as you said to many is the key you kept posting we willbe #1 thats all it is to you it wasnt about fun it was about a status for you and your cronies and now to resort to childish name calling show a bit of respect your the fool not me!


It's funny how when you're lies are revealed you change the topic. Try and argue one point at a time. It's what adults do. Now before you make yourself look any dumber I suggest you stop. All your posts still exist on our forum and the admin here is welcome to look at them. He'll find all the racial and macro talk that you complain about coming from you. Would you like to fight anymore battles that you can't win.
PAINTEDLADY

So show me proof that I made any Macros! I am not the owner of the CJK777 forum you are and you are the one responsible for any and all content that is placed there correct? You are the one trying to show some type of home shooled education here and it isnt working both the admin and the Moderators have see the contents of your site. So look at the complaints and tell me how i can be bravo and or cody or roy or ashley or alberta bull let me know how it is that they all joined at different times waiting for the reply. Lets also bring in Marie the one you told if she couldnt hack the GAY threads than CJK wasnt the place for her. Hurry think fast Chris your loosing site of the real issue here your site is a Macro site and a racialey motivated soft porn site.
CodyT07

Back on the issue. The macros are in violation of Party Poker Terms and Conditions AND YOU SAY THAT!
Quote:
FURTHER, USING THESE MACROS CONSTITUTES USING THIRD PARTY SOFTWARE
IN THE EYES OF PARTY POKER. IF CAUGHT THEY CAN CLOSE YOUR ACCOUNT(S) AND OR
BAN YOU FROM THEIR SITE, SOLELY AT THEIR DISCRETION. YOU ASSUME FULL RISK AND
RESPONSIBILITY FOR ANY AND ALL ACTIONS THAT CAN BE TAKEN.


Using this link. http://cjk777.net/upccontents.html
at the bottom of the page.
And so you dont edit it out


Click to see full size image

You know their against rules, but yet you say their not.

Yes im 15 and you want me OUT because im proving facts.
PAINTEDLADY

Oh and by the way the only one lying is you the admin seen the Macros and the illegal downloads instead of worrying about me you should worry about the illegal activities youhave going on that could come back on myfreeforum through party poker.
CHRIS777

PAINTEDLADY wrote:
So show me proof that I made any Macros! I am not the owner of the CJK777 forum you are and you are the one responsible for any and all content that is placed there correct? You are the one trying to show some type of home shooled education here and it isnt working both the admin and the Moderators have see the contents of your site. So look at the complaints and tell me how i can be bravo and or cody or roy or ashley or alberta bull let me know how it is that they all joined at different times waiting for the reply. Lets also bring in Marie the one you told if she couldnt hack the GAY threads than CJK wasnt the place for her. Hurry think fast Chris your loosing site of the real issue here your site is a Macro site and a racialey motivated soft porn site.


I can't argue anymore with people that can't make a valid case. As I said, the admin is welcome to ask me to make him a moderator and he can go through all 4000 of your posts (that are hidden) one by one. He can also thoroughly examine any other areas of the forum, we have absolutely nothing to hide. Enough said.

Edited by Symon
CodyT07

you even read my last post? You know their illegal but yet you come into this argument saying "their simple mouse and click strokes" BUT thats in vilation of partypoker.net rules, you even said it yourself. And im not going to dig through 4000 posts as if your 'were' innocent you would give us links to the threads (without the need to sign up) and show us their legit as Admin or anyone else has time to search all four thousand threads for your innocence. if your innocent give us links instead of saying "well you go look." As i showed my proof, now wheres yours?
CHRIS777

Quick fact to the admin of this site.

Google advertises on our forum. Our main banner for advertising has sites that google puts up that say "WANT TO CHEAT AT POKER" click here. These adverts are throughout our forum. Those sites that google advertises are for supposed software that allows players to see other players cards in real money. You make money from these adverts. Do you see the irony in all of this.

Again, our macros have nothing to do with real money, they are automated mouse and keyboard clicks for fake chips.

But you allow adverts to link sites that promote cheating yet you lecture us.
CodyT07

Quote:
You make money from these adverts

Correction, they dont make money. .org site dont make a profit. The adverts are their so your forum is free. Though this thread isnt about the ads its about you allowing the use of macros.
admin (no pm's please)

CHRIS777 wrote:
Quick fact to the admin of this site.

Google advertises on our forum. Our main banner for advertising has sites that google puts up that say "WANT TO CHEAT AT POKER" click here. These adverts are throughout our forum. Those sites that google advertises are for supposed software that allows players to see other players cards in real money. You make money from these adverts. Do you see the irony in all of this.

Again, our macros have nothing to do with real money, they are automated mouse and keyboard clicks for fake chips.

But you allow adverts to link sites that promote cheating yet you lecture us.


The questions is do your macros constitute cheating that ruins the game for others. That is the only issue here.

Our advertising is google based, and google is the only sane way of supporting the forums system. We cannot control google, we can control whether you are allowed to violate our terms and conditions.

I still have not heard an argument from you addressing this central issue

I think everyone else has made their points and I would appreciate that if they have anything further to add, it keeps to what is pertinent. It does not matter whether you like this forum or not, or whether they have treated you badly.
US_SMOKE_MC

CJK has no valid point in this matter or it would have been made long ago. I have contacted Party Poker and they also have the website and have viewd CJK777.myfree.forum.org. They are going to be taking action admin I ask you to please pm me on this issue the Tech Supervison asked me to speak with you and give you his name and email at party poker.com. They indeed what this information gone as a result in illeagal activity.
admin (no pm's please)

If party poker want to talk with us, they are I am sure perfectly capable of doing it without 3rd parties.
CHRIS777

admin wrote:
CHRIS777 wrote:
Quick fact to the admin of this site.

Google advertises on our forum. Our main banner for advertising has sites that google puts up that say "WANT TO CHEAT AT POKER" click here. These adverts are throughout our forum. Those sites that google advertises are for supposed software that allows players to see other players cards in real money. You make money from these adverts. Do you see the irony in all of this.

Again, our macros have nothing to do with real money, they are automated mouse and keyboard clicks for fake chips.

But you allow adverts to link sites that promote cheating yet you lecture us.


The questions is do your macros constitute cheating that ruins the game for others. That is the only issue here.

Our advertising is google based, and google is the only sane way of supporting the forums system. We cannot control google, we can control whether you are allowed to violate our terms and conditions.

I still have not heard an argument from you addressing this central issue

I think everyone else has made their points and I would appreciate that if they have anything further to add, it keeps to what is pertinent. It does not matter whether you like this forum or not, or whether they have treated you badly.


Sir,

I have no problems with your forum nor do I feel that I was treated inappropriately. I love a good debate, even though it was not much of a debate.

To your main question, once again, my reply is:

If something that can be done by hand is automated how can this be construed as cheating. Our macros are solely for fake chips that are meaningless, you can try these programs for yourself. The macros only recreate and repeat mouse and keyboards clicks. They are in no way illegal, our forum has been up for a year and no one from party poker has ever bothered us with regards to our macros and believe me they've gotten alot of phone calls from ex-members like the one that is causing trouble here. Therefore we are not, and I repeat, WE ARE NOT violating any of your terms and conditions with such programs.

The choice Sir is yours, you can either allow us to continue to exist in this community or ask us to leave and we will gladly pay you the 60 euros to move our forum to our website.
admin (no pm's please)

I am only trying to do the right thing, I have always considered automation macros to lie in a grey area, I believe I said as much at the start of the thread.
US_SMOKE_MC

Well they are far from being in a grey area by party pokers standpoint. and now the admin has the info and yes they are illegal just read party pokers TOS it states it clear as crystal there. That has been said over and over. So you have no rock to stand on cjk pure and simple they are ILLEGAL they are 3rd party software with violates the TOS of Party Poker end of point
CHRIS777

admin wrote:
I am only trying to do the right thing, I have always considered automation macros to lie in a grey area, I believe I said as much at the start of the thread.


Then that means you agree that we are not in violation of any terms and conditions that you've set forth.

Based on what you just stated above I consider this matter resolved.

Thank you for your time and patience in this matter.

Chris
admin (no pm's please)

CHRIS777 wrote:
admin wrote:
I am only trying to do the right thing, I have always considered automation macros to lie in a grey area, I believe I said as much at the start of the thread.


Then that means you agree that we are not in violation of any terms and conditions that you've set forth.

Based on what you just stated above I consider this matter resolved.

Thank you for your time and patience in this matter.

Chris


Don't deliberately misread me, "grey area" does not mean things are resolved.
CJK_KAM_CJK

admin wrote:

Don't deliberately misread me, "grey area" does not mean things are resolved.


To be honest, it does not look like you want this issue resolved. We have stated the facts about the macros are an atomata (making keyboard presses and mouse movements and clicks - WHICH CAN BE ACCOMPLISHED BY HAND). We have stated that you yourself can get it and see that this is true. You can see that it does not directly effect the gaming with anyone else.

Arguing this point any further is futile and just for the enjoyment of drama.

I see no need to be the entertainment for other people in this way.

The fact is, one of your new forum's administrators was banned from our site. He has a vendetta against us. To be honest, that is fine, personally I wish him well. What I do not understand is how this is not easily seen by you.

Therefore I see no reason to make yet one more post about this topic.

However, If you can specifically tell me, what you want to hear to resolve the issue, WE, meaning you the admin of MFF and US the admins of CJK, would love to discuss it. This thread is useless. It is strictly innuendo, lies and anger. THis is not a professional way for a business (MFF) to treat a customer (CJK). And although Chris said he didnt think we were being mistreated, I disagree with him. I think that this is a witch hunt and is juvenile. So, if you feel that you should close us down, then that is your choice. But there will be no further drama about this with our participation.

-kam
Nick(NR)

admin wrote:
CHRIS777 wrote:
admin wrote:
I am only trying to do the right thing, I have always considered automation macros to lie in a grey area, I believe I said as much at the start of the thread.


Then that means you agree that we are not in violation of any terms and conditions that you've set forth.

Based on what you just stated above I consider this matter resolved.

Thank you for your time and patience in this matter.

Chris


Don't deliberately misread me, "grey area" does not mean things are resolved.


Exactly, this grey area can fall both ways, the use of the macros can be very annoying for those people it affects negatively(seat hijacking being the main one), but as previously stated they are for fake chips(points basically), I used to be a member of party poker, but after continued verbal abuse by members I played against I left(no idea if their part of CJK, but I don't care no one should be that abusive to anyone), as I left I cannot say if there are tournaments for fake chip players to enable them to play for real money, if there isn't then it's just annoying more than it is fun, as it only proves people aren't good enough to win points by playing, as no real money can be earned from those fake chips, I do not see a real problem.
US_SMOKE_MC

That is just one of the many issues of this entire thread. See how the manipulation process keeps on going with the cjk777 forum. They continue to make no justification other than they feel mistreated and seem it is falling on deaf ears. Kam you know good and well that your forum is not about fun at all, it a epicenter for drama. You are not just illeagally placing macros on the cjk777 forum. You are droping the integrity of the game and blatenly doing this to see how far you can press the issue. You are also not just placing your forum in jeopardy, but this Free forum site all together. You say how? Well the free forum is the host of all the free forums and you placing illegal trash on your forum jeopodizes all memebrs here and the use of the helpful tips that come out of this forum. This isn't the cjk side show which you want it to be. You also know that once you have no macros your site falls to a substandared forum. Case in point you keep the macros on the forum for that reason the numbers. You keep stating that there is another macro coming. This is how you keep the people that are on your forum at your forum. That is the way it is. I also will say something about the Moderator, Nick (NR) it probably was cjk777 they do it all the time and that is one of the reasons the integristy of the game has diminished. No matter which way you look at it the macros are illegal and if you really look at it, its not a gret area at all it is right here in black and white. In the TOS agreement. Then CJK777 comes here and begins to run there mouth to other members of this Free forum. again I say this isn't the cjk777 forum now Kam and or Chris. Both sites and your macro have been turned over to Party Poker. Ther is no denying your site fails to comply with the Free Forum TOS regulations. You are just hoping that you can bully the people here into thinking the way you want them to just like your own free froum. Look at the stats of your forum. The funny thing is there are threads of people just stating that they are there for the macro. Nothing more nothing less. Your forum is built around cheating, illeagal downloads, discrimination. How do you comply with the rules of the TOS? Enlighten us with your Masters degree.
Bravo

I am thirsty.

I think I'll take some coca cola from a shop because I don't want to spend any money.

I could have bought it if I wanted to, I just choose not to.

Therefore, my taking the drink is perfectly legal.

----------------------

I need chips.

I think I'll use an automated macro to get chips because I can't be arsed doing the actions.

I could do the actions if I wanted to, I just choose to let the macro do it.

Therefore the macro is perfectly legal.

-------------------------

Only thing between me and my drink of coca cola is the law. They say it's not right. I don't agree with the law, but I have to abide by it.

-------------------------

Only thing between me and my chipper macro is PartyPoker. They say it's not right. I don't agree with them but I have to abide by them.
Symon

This may be the fact and it may be true but however many members post or dont post is not the issue here, please stay on track which is simply do these machos contravene with the T@C,s of myfreeforum.

As Admin has stated please stay on track this is not a jungle court the final decision will rest with Admin, Admin has been fair to listen to both sides of the story.
admin (no pm's please)

I have just deleted several posts that Symon refers to

If people cannot keep to the point, they will not be allowed to continue to trash what is a difficult thread.
CodyT07

admin wrote:
I have just deleted several posts that Symon refers to

If people cannot keep to the point, they will not be allowed to continue to trash what is a difficult thread.

Really think it should be locked until one of the forum admins could give a valid reason why they are innocent as they have havent defended agaist my post a page back about them saying their macros are against partypoker.nets T&C.
And really 6 pages all they have is "simple mouse and click patterns" which tells us what they do but to those who play innocent thats just cheating, as i expericence it quite a few times on the online game i play which their against TC there but back on topic.
The admins really need to give a legit point. as all i heard is attacks and saying "search the forum for yourself" and really who has time? If they were innocent they would gives a link.
admin (no pm's please)

It was actually up to people attacking the forum to provide links to where other of our terms and conditions were broken. Fair enough for them to say search the forum! You can't expect them to provide links to what they say does not exist!

As for Macros and terms and conditions from Party Poker. It is not up to us to enforce another sites terms and conditions. The web and the world is littered with people stating conditions that go against the simple facts of life. Sometimes there are even laws that go against reality. Please don't correct me if I am a little wrong on the following point unless you want to do so in another thread, but I think it is still the case that every time I record a television programme to watch later I am technically breaching copyright laws.
CodyT07

Good point but the thread was origanlly started because of the macos and if they do have a link to their main site (havent looked but sure they do) or where they could be downloaded would be in violation/ but you are right, their is no links proving their guilt, with 5k+ members im sure this would have started some time back. Though PP rules say "programs that give an unfair advantage over other players" could go into a grey area but the seat stealer macro has an unfair advantage.
Bravo

Links with regard to macros and with regard to colluding have been provided to the MFF admin team.

They ARE in contravention of PartyPoker T&C's. This is a fact that has been proven, and indeed it is not denied, and is openly admitted.

The only question that remains is whether or not they are in breach of MFF T&C's. This is not so clear cut.

The cjk admin team has placed the MFF admin team in a tricky situation. If PartyPoker decided to, they could create quite a bit of trouble for MFF. Now everyone here knows that MFF is a great service run by a great person. For everybody who has a forum under MFF, their ears should be pricking up about now, because while cjk are breaking PP T&C's, every single forum under this system is under threat.

I ask you, cjk admins, not to bite the hand that feeds.

I ask you to remove your links to the macros.
I ask you to ban any form of collusion taking place on your forums.
laDyluCk

Do any of you realize that most of the people that use this device play against each other? Each other meaning members of CJK. Its not used to manipulate so-called innocent party poker players by any means whatsoever, although Im sure out of over 5000 members there are certainly a few individuals that try to use it to be deceitful, but how deceitful can one be while playing for FAKE chips. Its functions do not include any visible or hidden features that could be used in any way to manipulate "real money" players. It is basically a LAZY mans tool allowing the user to play poker and be elsewhere at the same time, it does what you yourself can do with your own hands. To those that argue its legality and function, how do you completely understand or know the specifics of something you personally haven't tried? Thats like saying you dont like a certain type of food but you've never tasted it so, HOW DO YOU KNOW? CJK isn't just a place that poker players hang out. It's amazing how worldly and family oriented it really is. When you go, dont hunt down the poker topics. Take your time and look around you'll discover that there is so much more to it than you could imagine. The members are absolutely awesome! The graphics are completely unbelievable! What I have been reading at 3 seperate forums is the same bashing from the same individual basically, and what I fail to understand is how Admin such as yourself would even allow a banned member to continue with outragious allegations all stemming from his anger towards the forum in which he was banned. As for the other non-members who voice their opinions, they have every right to do so as do I have the right to voice my own. If you take away CJKs forum, you take away much more than a simple poker toy. You take away our escape from reality, our friendship bonds, more laughs than you could ever imagine. Im only one member of many that asks you to please base your decisions on the forum as a WHOLE not just the small poker part.
Bravo

I would like to point out in response to the previous post (which further admits the case which has now been proven beyond any doubt whatsoever) that I have never been a member of the cjk forum until this issue, and thus have never been banned.
Bravo

This is a very important post, so I would like to repeat it on the new page as I feel it is crucial the cjk team sort their house out for all concerned.

Bravo wrote:
Links with regard to macros and with regard to colluding have been provided to the MFF admin team.

They ARE in contravention of PartyPoker T&C's. This is a fact that has been proven, and indeed it is not denied, and is openly admitted.

The only question that remains is whether or not they are in breach of MFF T&C's. This is not so clear cut.

The cjk admin team has placed the MFF admin team in a tricky situation. If PartyPoker decided to, they could create quite a bit of trouble for MFF. Now everyone here knows that MFF is a great service run by a great person. For everybody who has a forum under MFF, their ears should be pricking up about now, because while cjk are breaking PP T&C's, every single forum under this system is under threat.

I ask you, cjk admins, not to bite the hand that feeds.

I ask you to remove your links to the macros.
I ask you to ban any form of collusion taking place on your forums.
laDyluCk

Bravo wrote:
I would like to point out in response to the previous post (which further admits the case which has now been proven beyond any doubt whatsoever) that I have never been a member of the cjk forum until this issue, and thus have never been banned.


Actually I wasn't speaking of you Bravo. Why so fast to feel judged?
CHRIS777

Ladyluck thank you for your kind words. We have asked our members to stay out of this thread and that is why this thread has not gotten bombarded with replies from our members. We feel that Kam and I have said enough, there is no need to make this circus grow. As Kam stated it is nothing but a witch hunt so we kindly ask our members not to post here.

We are done talking here, we've said what we had to say, let them make their decision and let's move on. It's not the end of the world regardless of what they decide, we have our own site, we can pay to move the forum there and not have to be judged by ignorance any further.

This is my last post in this thread pertaining to this matter, I will not reply to any other comments or questions here. Our case was made, we've been open and direct concerning all issues. If MFF fails to see this, then so be it.
Symon

I have tyred to stay out of this and be as i have to be very neutral but your arrogant attitude does you no favours.

Childish comments and insults and innuendos are not what is needed here, the truth behind the machos are, you say you have said all you can, which is a fair comment to make , you dont have to answer to those you claim are on a witch hunt and keep the circus rolling, as you so childishly put it.

However to take the arrogant stance as you have in your last post is not what is called for. Your forum is no different to any other forum that is hosted on the myfree/fast/fine forum, you have to ad-heed to the rules just like the forums larger than yours and the ones smaller than yours.

To anyone else that has an interest in this thread Admin has asked many times to keep this on track, this is not a witch hunt or a jungle court, it is a thread based on the terms and conditions.

This said unless you have actual links to post where they have broken the rules i would ask that you keep personnel beliefs out of it.

Admin needs proof that there are links to any material deemed by himself to breaking the terms and conditions.

As to whether the machos are illegal then Admin has said this is a grey area which is being looked into.

So please only constructed post to prove or disprove please or any other post will be removed.
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